@rottweilerDo we need a whip around to help some of these people or have they been isolated for so long, that they assistance? Or Counseling? I.e. if 40 of us had a whip round at a $1 at a time - I assume would save someone's career during this unsettled period of time, and those who do decide to shutdown literally - will only regret this decision in a very short period of time. Given the number of aggressors using this period of time to create what has been quoted as a 14000 percent increase in attacks against organisations and their related businesses.
I have seen quite senior people, myself decide for some inexplicable reason previously to give it all us, and within month seriously regret having done so.
I doubt that was a serious comment. All the time and preparation and money spent for the CISSP... and then give it up as unemployment skyrockets? That is foolish and unserious unless you have a large trust fund and a private island.
The rest of us are soldiering on and making it work.
OK. I understand your sentiment. HOWEVER, a bumbling totally volunteer organization will not keep its standing in the world. (ISC)2 has recognition by the world's top accrediting bodies, they must maintain very high standards that keep getting harder for them to maintain every single year.
Frankly, the fee is nothing and I am semi-retired, on social security, and work only part time now and I would readily qualify for the CISSP (retired) label. However, I will keep paying my AMF and doing my CPEs and I will do it gladly.
I am a (ISC)2 Chapter Officer that does work for our (ISC)2 for free. I do so gladly as it is an honor. Other associations do not even come close to offering you the kind of online training and community support of (ISC)2, especially now.
Being part of professional associations are mandatory in most real professions and they charge MUCH more. We all like a raise and the full time staff at (ISC)2 deserves their pay as well. Again, I am a volunteer and I am not employed by (ISC)2 but I am a paying member.
I am in my sixties and I have been in industry, the military, the government and now academia and ALL of these sectors demand that the professionals put sweat equity back into their profession. I spent many years in each sector.
Keep in mind that the "CISSP-certified IT professionals earn an average salary of $116,573, making it the third-highest salary for IT professionals globally."
(this is consistent with the US Government's Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates)
Let's look at the dues others pay:
Refer to this article with a long list of associations for nearly all professions https://jobstars.com/professional-associations-organizations/
AMA - $420 annual dues (regular practice) refer to https://www.ama-assn.org/member-benefits/member-eligibility-dues/ama-membership-dues
(students and fully retired do get a brake but (ISC)2 is not that expensive h in comparison)
The mean salary of a doctor in the United States is $294,000/year according to a Medscape Report.
American Bar Association is similar to above "The five new ABA dues categories will be set at $75, $150, $250, $350 and $450, depending on years as a lawyer and type of practice area. Law students will still receive free membership."
Lawyers made a median salary of $120,910 in 2018. The best-paid 25 percent made $182,490 that year, while the lowest-paid 25 percent made $79,160.
|Professional, Fellow, or Affiliate||$158|
American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) - Membership Dues & Fees
5+ years post grad ($20.42 per mo) = annual = $245.00
Average Civil Engineer Salary - $66,271
Armed Forces Communications & Electronics Association (Signal Officers)
Average Military Officer Salary - Average Base Pay $90,355/yr (Talking about very senior officers with over eight years of experience)
Association of the United States Army
Two year membership $40.00
These are just two associations I still belong to, and officers typically join two or more and basically wind up paying more than $125 a year when they are all added together with other things they are voluntold to contribute to "as a professional."
I could go on forever showing how $125.00 a year, even if you have multiple certifications, is a real bargain compared with other professions.
Until you have 40+ years belong to various professions with various due structures, then I humbly suggest you may lack a broad perspective.
I can tell you that as an IV&V systems analyst for a commercial corporation working on a major command and control system while also being the certified facility security officer (yes two jobs separate jobs rolled into one job) I made about 35K a year in 1992 before you really had the insistence of the government for certifications beyond those of the Defense Security Service for facility security officers. By the way our contract had us working a minimum of 45 hours a week.
Information security professionals back then were looked at as a nuisance and treated accordingly and organizations like (ISC)2, SANS, and CompTIA put us on a footing with other professionals and made it so that government and corporate policy required us to be taken seriously.
This was good for the world community since we as a profession are more able to deal with the threats we now face because we continually must prove that we stay current and we as a profession make it required that candidates pass a rigorous certification PROCESS and professional maintenance regime to stay qualified. I taught computer security, I was the COMSEC custodian, and I was a course director all at once when I was on active duty as a senior captain. Back before the 1990s, security professionals were looked at as "hey you" kind of jobs, even in the military.
Again, look at what other professions need to do before we trash our (ISC)2.
I am writing this to help everyone in our community keep things in perspective. Hopefully, this will motivate members to gladly support (ISC)2 and realize how good we have it, especially as we look around to what others are going through in their professional careers due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Very Respectfully Posted for all Our Members who I really Respect,
"...a bumbling totally volunteer organization will not keep its standing in the world."
What does this keeping of standing entail? How much does it cost? Where does this end?
It isn't just upping the fee, they have changed it to the beginning rather than the end of the cycle. Granted, that is as one-time hit but on top of the increase that is quite a bit. One gets the impression someone at ISC really is needing money. Why?
OK, I tried to do some research to answer your questions but I am not involved in (ISC)2's effort to maintain certification but I do know from working with (ISC)2 and CompTIA that it is a continuous process to stay certified on an organization level just like it does for us on a personal level.
Basically from what I found out by my own research the ANAB Personnel Certification required to make (ISC)2 certifications valid requires a lengthy procedure and maintenance that requires significant labor. If you try to research what it costs, you will see how hard it is to find out how much organizations actually spend on this mandatory effort. This means it is another, if you need to ask about the cost, you probably can't afford it deal. FACT "ANAB is supported by fees charged for the services it provides."
In reality you probably need to go to workshops and each workshop is priced at $795 for ANSI members; $895 for non-members. Here is a fee table and it does not look cheap https://www.ansi.org/Accreditation/product-certification/DocumentDetail?DRId=10848
Read more at the ANSI Blog: ANSI/ISO/IEC 17024 Accreditation: How to Apply (Part 1 of 2) https://blog.ansi.org/?p=161794
Please refer to https://anab.ansi.org/credentialing/personnel-certification/how-to-apply and the list of ANSI/ISO/IEC 17024 (Accredited) organizations that includes (ISC)2:
AND please see that they have Client Workshops only open to representatives of a current ANSI-accredited personnel certification body. https://www.ansi.org/accreditation/workshops/Client-Day-September-2019?menuid=9?source=blog
and you need to buy the standard https://webstore.ansi.org/Standards/ISO/ISOIEC170242012
and this link gives you insight into how this is not a trivial and by going here and looking around you get an idea of how this process is very involved http://www.proftesting.com/blog/2016/10/06/isoiec-17024-implementation/ and this gives you actual insight into the old standard and it was pretty involved https://www.ihf-fih.org/resources/pdf/Conformity_assessment-General_requirements_for_bodies_operatin...
The increase in our AMF is probably due to all the costs in just doing all the work above in maintain the certification for the organization's certifications and keeping on top of the standard for accrediting bodies. After digging into what an organization needs to do to achieve and maintain certification is is pretty involved and is nothing volunteers could do unless they were willing to basically work a full time job for free. This is what I think based on looking at this, please refer to the links above.
In addition we now have a tremendous amount of online training provided to us at no additional cost to our AMF that we never had before.
As you can see, I have dug deep into this. Having had to be responsible for budgets of large organizations I know that the actual cost of labor for an average professional worker is 135K per year at loaded rate that covers not just salary but payroll taxes and benefits. It takes over 1000 members with their $125 AMF to cover just one man year of work. Employee salaries minus benefits was $15,500,994.00 in 2018, You can see a lay down of the (ISC)2 expenses in this report and it is a formally audited report:
Again, (ISC)2 to my mind is providing a well recognized credential at a very affordable price and I have really dug into what we pay and what we are getting in a manner that I feel is objective. I am just member like you so I say all this in a manner that is not serving my pocket or pet projects. It is just my humble view based on my own research.
Rob - you seem to have passion, history of volunteering and a lot of thoughts about what's wrong with the organization. Why don't you consider putting your hat in the ring for a future BoD election. What ideas do you have to change this "hide-bound" organization?
Very well validated and written. Well done. Thank you on behalf of the community.
Well it appears CISSP is regarded in Europe as being equivalent to an MSc qualification:
So it is hard earned, as those who have done a full time or part time MSc at University.
This is really good news - so don't give it up people..... 🙂
So does this mean if you have done a concentration it is equivalent to a PhD? Thinking wildly.