Your new annual membership Fee is now $125! How do you feel about that?

[rslade]

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@gthompson wrote:

Rob - you seem to have passion, history of volunteering and a lot of thoughts about what's wrong with the organization.

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Why, thank you.

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Why don't you consider putting your hat in the ring for a future BoD election.

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Well, for one thing, since my cert is suspended, I'm not eligible  🙂

[Sebastienbo]

Diana, to me your argument of more users make no sense. If there are more users, then there are also more users paying the 65 dollars. So it stays in equilibrium
And you are not going to tell me that when the user base increases by 300% that they also increase their staff by 300%, so they have also big winnings there.

And the exam cost is also enormous, why all that money?

Don't think that only the members are paying money, they have other incomes, exams, exam centers,trainings,etc...

For me it was also the last year that I payed for subscriptions at ics2 , I'm old enough I don't need to prove myself anymore to any employers.
I was a CISSP in the past so they know I have the knowledge.

And for a security company I don't understand why they store our mastercard onto their systems, it should run through a payment provider, not through them.

And I also hate the fact that you can only pay with mastercard, there is no european payment method.

Taxes can also not be re-cuperated because it is not a european tax number.

They also have no representation anymore in europe, since London is not in europe anymore

The company has disconnected itself from it's european members

[Frank_Mayer]

I agree that you have valid points.  I am well into my 60s and now I am an adjunct professor teaching a community college where I am also a career counselor.  (ISC)2 can certainly use PayPal and other payment methods that work well, to include XOOM that is affiliated with PayPal and that I use to send money to my family in Europe all the time.  The membership fee of $125 is worth is as long as the online content for professional development keeps improving and I really want to see a virtual component to the (ISC)2 Congress included as part of that fee, instead of being a separate charge.  The periodicals that you can take tests on and get CPEs are great too.  The PD with CPEs being awarded as part of the package deal would make the $125 fully worth it.  I am constantly learning new things by teaching and having to actually build learning content based on my required collaboration with employers in the business from ALL sectors, banking, medical, ISPs, academia, government and the military.   the other point is that you are blessed to have employers that do not demand that you have the certification if you want to keep your job. In the USA the DoD has driven everyone to make sure all their people are trained, screened and certified and maintain the certification.  No certification, no job and no contract.  The next thing that is being rolled out right now is that all contractors with the DoD must be CMMC certified as an organization.  This is at an organization level but it requires a highly trained staff.  (ISC)2's certifications are among the ones acceptable and it costs money to stay engaged with the DoD so that our certifications remain relevant.  The other good thing is that is one fee even if you have multiple certifications and the rapid change in cybersecurity requires continuous improvement.  As long as (ISC)2 focuses on providing quality professional development and networking experiences as part of the package deal the $125 is worth it.  In the old days, the organization was no where near mature enough to stay relevant. Now the organization is more relevant than ever. I have over 40 years experience across government, military, industry, and academic sectors, so I think that I may know a bit.  I have worked with NATO allies in EUROPE as well.  

[dcontesti]

 Diana, to me your argument of more users make no sense. If there are more users, then there are also more users paying the 65 dollars. So it stays in equilibrium
And you are not going to tell me that when the user base increases by 300% that they also increase their staff by 300%, so they have also big winnings there.

>>>>> 

>>>>> Not sure this is what I said as I cannot find the posting.  I believe I said for those folk that have multiple certs this was a good thing however for those that only have one cert, it could be a hardship.

And the exam cost is also enormous, why all that money?

Don't think that only the members are paying money, they have other incomes, exams, exam centers,trainings,etc...

>>>>>> Valid points but I think that is up to management to detail the cost of the exams.

 For me it was also the last year that I payed for subscriptions at ics2 , I'm old enough I don't need to prove myself anymore to any employers.
I was a CISSP in the past so they know I have the knowledge.

And for a security company I don't understand why they store our mastercard onto their systems, it should run through a payment provider, not through them.

>>>>> also they are not a security company, I believe they are classed as a certification company and again management would need to explain this one

And I also hate the fact that you can only pay with mastercard, there is no european payment method.

Taxes can also not be re-cuperated because it is not a european tax number.

>>>>> Maybe be different here (Canada) but I always used my VISA to pay, again a question for management.  Not sure about tax rebates

They also have no representation anymore in europe, since London is not in europe anymore

The company has disconnected itself from it's european members

>>>>> again a question for management, however did the company disconnect or is it fallout from BREXIT?

>>>>> you do raise very valid points but these should be directed to management or the BOARD

>>>>> @amandavanceISC2  can you please forward these concerns internally?

Regards

d

[AlecTrevelyan]

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@Sebastienbo wrote:

Diana, to me your argument of more users make no sense. If there are more users, then there are also more users paying the 65 dollars. So it stays in equilibrium
And you are not going to tell me that when the user base increases by 300% that they also increase their staff by 300%, so they have also big winnings there.

And the exam cost is also enormous, why all that money?

Don't think that only the members are paying money, they have other incomes, exams, exam centers,trainings,etc...

For me it was also the last year that I payed for subscriptions at ics2 , I'm old enough I don't need to prove myself anymore to any employers.
I was a CISSP in the past so they know I have the knowledge.

And for a security company I don't understand why they store our mastercard onto their systems, it should run through a payment provider, not through them.

And I also hate the fact that you can only pay with mastercard, there is no european payment method.

Taxes can also not be re-cuperated because it is not a european tax number.

They also have no representation anymore in europe, since London is not in europe anymore

The company has disconnected itself from it's european members

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1) As a multi-cert holder you actually benefited from the change in fee structure.

2) EU != Europe

Geographically speaking, London is still in the continent of Europe.

There are no guarantees provided for ISC2 local office coverage in your chosen political union, just in your geographical region.

[Sebastienbo]

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@AlecTrevelyan wrote:

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@Sebastienbo wrote:

Diana, to me your argument of more users make no sense. If there are more users, then there are also more users paying the 65 dollars. So it stays in equilibrium
And you are not going to tell me that when the user base increases by 300% that they also increase their staff by 300%, so they have also big winnings there.

And the exam cost is also enormous, why all that money?

Don't think that only the members are paying money, they have other incomes, exams, exam centers,trainings,etc...

For me it was also the last year that I payed for subscriptions at ics2 , I'm old enough I don't need to prove myself anymore to any employers.
I was a CISSP in the past so they know I have the knowledge.

And for a security company I don't understand why they store our mastercard onto their systems, it should run through a payment provider, not through them.

And I also hate the fact that you can only pay with mastercard, there is no european payment method.

Taxes can also not be re-cuperated because it is not a european tax number.

They also have no representation anymore in europe, since London is not in europe anymore

The company has disconnected itself from it's european members

---

1) As a multi-cert holder you actually benefited from the change in fee structure.

2) EU != Europe

Geographically speaking, London is still in the continent of Europe.

There are no guarantees provided for ISC2 local office coverage in your chosen political union, just in your geographical region.

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Geographicly, swiss is also in europe, however since they are not part of the EU, financial laws,taxes and invoices are rejected in EU (and vice versa)

Same thing for UnitedKingdom, they cannot invoice taxfree to EU countries anymore and taxes cannot be deducted anymore from of 1 july 2021, making the fees and invoices very expensive.

And ISC2 will not be a legal entity anymore in europe since london is not in the EU anymore.

This has many consuequences, of which the most important ones will be trust (non eu company) and financial, all invoices/examfees will be increased by > 20%-25% taxes.

As for the perks: they were never targetted outside of the united states, they never made an effort to make perks for EU members, I only saw a few that would be usable by EU members. For example purchasing something from a us store has a very high shipping costs + import taxes of 40% 

So in summary, no more tax invoicing possible for trainings/fees/etc.., no more european payment methods (only mastercard), no european perks, no legal entity making the certificates less worth in europe , annual price doubled.

For US members I suppose there is still some worth that to all the perks, but outside of US, ICS2 is loosing it's grip as an international company

[Early_Adopter]

So if I read it right there’s a good reason for ISC2 to incorporate a branch in the EU, maybe say Dublin and/or Estonia? Seems the tax thing is for the EU to work out what it needs to be but if the demand is there ISC2 could surely put its branch in.

On the perks side in Singapore the local ISC2 chapter fulfils the role that the ISSA used to(still does?) in the UK, and before Covid the HK meetup was always excellent. I personally couldn’t care less beyond networking having fun.

Costs ISC2 is at 125 USD and IAPP is at 225 USD(if you just maintain certs it’s a per cert charge, and I have four per exam they are cheaper(think was 295 USD) but.. less fun/ easier exams). ISACA fees are comparable 760 USD for the CISA exam and 135 USD plus chapter dues. 

[AlecTrevelyan]

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@Sebastienbo wrote:
Geographicly, swiss is also in europe, however since they are not part of the EU, financial laws,taxes and invoices are rejected in EU (and vice versa)

Same thing for UnitedKingdom, they cannot invoice taxfree to EU countries anymore and taxes cannot be deducted anymore from of 1 july 2021, making the fees and invoices very expensive.

And ISC2 will not be a legal entity anymore in europe since london is not in the EU anymore.

This has many consuequences, of which the most important ones will be trust (non eu company) and financial, all invoices/examfees will be increased by > 20%-25% taxes.

As for the perks: they were never targetted outside of the united states, they never made an effort to make perks for EU members, I only saw a few that would be usable by EU members. For example purchasing something from a us store has a very high shipping costs + import taxes of 40% 

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So your statement of ISC2 abandoning Europeans really ties back to you not being able to claim back the tax on your annual fees. Again, I state, nowhere is it enshrined in ISC2 policy that you will have local representation in terms of political (or financial or legal) union, just geographical region.

I should also point out, the geographical region is actually Europe, Middle East, and Africa (EMEA). There is no political or financial or legal union that encompasses all states in the EMEA region, so where do you suggest the office be located so that all members in the region are catered for?

Or are you suggesting there should be more offices? That will of course require more cost which will likely be passed on to the members, something that doesn't seem to align with your arguments about lack of value for your membership fees.

I also refer back to the first point I raised. Under the previous fee structure, as a CISSP, CCSP (according to your community badges) you would have been liable for $85 CISSP + $100 CCSP in fees each year, so you're actually saving $60 per year which should offset the cost of the taxes you can't claim back.

There are many viable reasons for you to decide not to continue with your ISC2 membership, and you need to do what's best for you, but you citing cost or lack of value as a reason doesn't hold any weight.