Not convinced TikTok is not a threat?

[Caute_cautim]

Hi All

Have a look at this analysis by Internet 2.0 on TikTok, and tell me that this application is not a threat?

https://internet2-0.com/technical-analysis-of-tiktok-app/

I suggest you make your organisations and users very aware of the Chinese capabilities and what they do with the information they gather.

Regards

Caute_Cautim

[tparker]

It's unfortunate the whitepaper didn't provide context by describing how TikTok's privacy compares to its social media competitors. Without that context, many readers will fall back on their own biases, which is unhelpful.

I'm sympathetic with people who fear intrusiveness from their own government more than they fear China. How do you reach those people without resorting to pure nationalism? That seems to be the group this whitepaper is targeted towards but, if so, it falls short.

[Caute_cautim]

@tparkerIn part I agree, but when you bring this into context with the following and various other articles, it makes a lot of sense:>

https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-china-access-data-in-us

Regards

Caute_Cautim

[tparker]

That article points out that China can access the private data of the users of Chinese social media apps, like TikTok. That seems to put it on similar footing as western social media apps, who share data with their own governments.

What's missing is an explanation of why the average western user should worry about what China will do with their private data, and not what their own government will do with their private data.

Why are we talking about China instead of having a more generalized discussion about social media privacy? What is different about the risk China poses to western social media users?

[Caute_cautim]

@tparkerBecause I have been in the game for a very long time, and I have served within Government establishments, the Chinese have been doing this via various nefarious means for many years, in fact it is part of their 100 (One Hundred) year strategy) unlike the Western World, using 3-5 year strategies, they plan for long term campaigns.

You may think immediately "phooey another plonker," believe me if you have been in the game, there are a lot of things, which the general public have been totally oblivious too, which has been going on for many many years not just from China, Russia, Iran, and even Saudi Arabia and many others too.

Time to wake, up and smell more than the Coffee beans in the morning.

I suggest you read the following book:

https://www.amazon.com/Claws-Panda-Beijings-Influence-Intimidation/dp/177086539X

It will provide some very revealing insights into what happened in Canada, and actually goes on in many other countries around the world today.

Regards

Caute_Cautim

[tparker]

I'm not going to read the book, but I am listening. I would prefer that China not have the tools to carry out nefarious plans. However, I think it's a mistake to support western governments having those same tools.

Singling out China for criticism has the effect of endorsing the surveillance infrastructure maintained by other countries. I understand how China's surveillance capabilities can be a threat to other nation-states and why China specifically raises those concerns. What I don't understand is why this is frequently, including in the whitepaper here, presented as an individual risk.

It's not "rally against TikTok for the good of your country," but rather "China can see your videos, be afraid". We've seen instances of both Western governments and China misusing their access to private social media to harm individuals. 

In the west this tends to be individual government employees "going rouge", while in China it's more systematic. In both cases the root cause is the same, surveillance is valued over privacy. Why not solve both at once and expect the tools to be built to preserve privacy?

[Caute_cautim]

@tparkerThat would be a very ethical perspective, but if you have read anything about the history of Zero Day Exploits and the years, that governments from both sides, sold these to various governments and agencies around the world, until it eventually imploded on itself.

Even privacy is being eroded, and there are many things to overcome, look at the Facial Recognition and how this is being eroded by Supermarkets or traffic control via surveillance techniques for example?

This is a world, which is challenged via Intellectual Property, who can gain the best foot hold, get to market, before someone steals the secret sauce etc.  Look at the race towards Quantum Cryptography and Computing for instance and Artificial Intelligence and Automation.

Yes, your approach is plausible, but until mankind resets its expectations, and its understanding of the effects that technology and impact on society, I am afraid, we just keep spinning the same old wheel, faster and faster as it progresses.

A lot of this is held by beliefs, politics, and the age old believe that military force has the greatest influence on the modern day world.  However, increasingly we are becoming to understand that "Sustainability aspects" that effect the world.  However, it will probably be a catastrophic event which will reset mankind's expectations, eventually.

This is mainly philosophical, but as you state many changes need to happen, and I don't believe it will happen overnight.

Regards

Caute_Cautim

[Caute_cautim]

I also suggest you look at one of my previous postings on privacy and how it is diminishing via W3C: https://community.isc2.org/t5/Privacy/Is-privacy-too-much-bother-for-W3C-Decentralised-Identities-gt...

Regards

Caute_Cautim

[Caute_cautim]

@tparkerI suggest you look at a posting from the FCC as they are requesting that Google and Apple remove TikTok from their catalogues too:

https://blog.malwarebytes.com/privacy-2/2022/07/tiktok-is-unacceptable-security-risk-and-should-be-r...

Regards

Caute_Cautim

[tparker]

That seems fine to me. The U.S. government believes Chinese surveillance of American citizens is a threat to national security and is taking steps to protect itself. Other countries have taken similar steps when worried about U.S. surveillance of their citizens. Governments have an obligation to ensure national security. That seems fine.

The risks a nation faces are very different than those faced by an individual citizen. The media coverage around TikTok seems to be the former masquerading as the later. 

Personalizing risk can be a powerful tool to help people understand and accept that risk, but it can also be misleading and cause confusion. When people hear that they should fear China having access to their private social media content, but feel safe with Western nations having that same access, it causes confusion. That confusion can lead to distrust and create space for that distrust to be channeled in harmful ways.

I'm not trying to defend TikTok or the Chinese government. I don't think TikTok's presence in app stores makes the world a better place. I think it's important to reflect on messaging that's unclear or perhaps hyperbolic, even when the goals of the message are aligned with my own.