Renewing Microsoft Azure certification: can I use it for CPEs?

[parreira]

Two years ago I passed the Azure Administratos exam (AZ-103) to earn the Azure Administrator certification which is valid for 2 years (+6 months because of COVID-19). I have now pass the beta replacement exam AZ-104 so I earned the Azure Administrator certification for another 2 years.

Can I add CPEs for this renewal? (probably for both CISSP and CCSP?)

[denbesten]

The one hour you spent taking an exam is generally not considered "continuing education"  because you did not "learn anything".   

However, you can claim credit for the many hours of studying you did, provided that the materials studied aligned with one or more of the domains for your certification(s).

[erwindus]

Makes sense that you can add the hours spent learning for the exam, but what is considered reasonable and how do you ‘prove’ the hours spent?

I mean: a very smart person and a fast reader learns something in one hour while a less smart person who is a slow reader needs four hours. So the smart guy can add 1 CPE and the less smart 4 CPE?

Shouldn’t we have list of all known (non ISC2) certifications that attribute to knowledge and list the amount of CPEs you can claim provided you show your certificate? Much more transparent.

[denbesten]

"reasonable" and "proving" are described in the handbook.  

Contact-hours is the "80% answer", likely because most CPEs come from webinars, classes, podcasts and other things that are easily measured by time.  Plus, it is somewhat egalitarian in these scenarios.  The handbook (pg 9) does acknowledge that some activities may earn more/less than 1 CPE per hour.  The most fitting example is ISP magazine.  One earns 2 CPEs for reading it, regardless of how fast or slow you accomplish the task.

I mean: a very smart person and a fast reader learns something in one hour while a less smart person who is a slow reader needs four hours. So the smart guy can add 1 CPE and the less smart 4 CPE?

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Not to throw stones, but I must take exception to equating reading speed to intelligence.  I know someone that provides the counter-example.  She is very intelligent as evidenced by having earned a 4.0 in college.  At the same time she has a formal dyslexia diagnosis, which documents why her reading speed to about 50% of mine. Yet as long as she takes the time she needs her comprehension equals mine.  

That said, the prospect of her getting 4x the CPEs than you for the same reading material is unlikely to happen because she also self-accommodates by earning CPEs (in her profession) through non-reading avenues so as to remain efficient with her time. 

[erwindus]

For the record: I'm not equating reading speed to intelligence, I never would.

I was merely using an example (maybe poorly worded) to show the arbitrary calculation of CPEs based on someone's level of intelligence OR the ability to read slow/fast.

That's why I asked:
"Shouldn’t we have list of all known (non ISC2) certifications that attribute to knowledge and list the amount of CPEs you can claim provided you show your certificate? Much more transparent."

[denbesten]

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@erwindus wrote:
For the record: I'm not equating reading speed to intelligence, I never would.

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Thanks for the clarification.

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Shouldn’t we have list of all known (non ISC2) certifications that attribute to knowledge and list the amount of CPEs you can claim provided you show your certificate? Much more transparent.

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Today, there is a uniform cap of 40 hours (handbook, page 14).   In large part, I suspect this was implemented to keep the rule simple and easily managed.   If you feel there is a better way, propose some handbook verbiage.  If you can get buy-in on the community, I am sure it would encourage Andrea to escalate with the (ISC)² machine.

Do keep in mind that CPEs are neither earned for possessing a different cert nor for passing an exam. It is the act of studying that counts, Even then one can only credit those hours that also happen to be related to the domain of your cert (handbook, page 9).   So, any tables you include likely will need to have a column for each of (ISC)²'s certs.

A side note.  Since it is the effort being rewarded, one can claim the CPEs even after failing or deciding against taking the exam.  This is different with the audit-proof CPEs (e.g. ISP Mag, PDI Institute, (ISC)²'s bright talk channel).  In those cases, one generally must pass the quiz to demonstrate that one was paying attention. 

[sergeling]

According to the FAQ:
https://www.isc2.org/Frequently-Asked-Questions

Q:

If I earn another certification, can I get credit for passing the examination?

A:

For obtaining a new credential, you may submit up to 30 CPEs under the self-study category for the time you spent preparing to obtain the new certification.

so...

My interpretation is that you can claim CPE for the time you study to get the certification (up to 30 CPE), and the certification itself will be the proof. So if I study for a certification and did not pass, it'd be hard to submit CPE for the hours used on study (since I can't present the certification as proof), unless I used Linkeding Learning, Pluralsight or other online training platform that offer certificate of completion.

The challenge is always attaching proof when submit CPE to avoid future issue when audit arise.

[denbesten]

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@sergeling wrote:

My interpretation is that you can claim CPE for the time you study to get the certification (up to 30 CPE), and the certification itself will be the proof.

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As a professional, you are the one to decide what constitutes "proof" in your instance, with the ultimate judgement potentially coming from an auditor.

That said, my professional opinion is that attaining a Cert does not demonstrate you put in the study hours -- particularly with a renewal, which is the topic of this discussion.  As you identified, certificates of completion are much better. As would be a contemporaneously maintained journal of study hours/resources.

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The challenge is always attaching proof when submit CPE to avoid future issue when audit arise.

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Evidence is not required to be generated by a third-party.  Self maintained records are sufficient if nothing better is available.  That said, I generally only submit third-party evidence because I earn enough CPEs that I can afford to submit only a fraction.