Student Scammed because she used last four digits of Phone number as PIN

[dcontesti]

So the article reads that the student is studying Business at University of Ottawa, loses card, waits a day to report, admittedly only talks to a TELLER and assumes everything will go away.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/student-scammed-8-000-won-t-be-reimbursed-because-she-used-phone-number-d...

PINs are random and all to easy to guess (anyone ever build a random play list and see the results).  While I feel sorry for her, I think I am siding with the bank on this one but my mind could be changed.

d

[green20151]

Understood -- but I also understand the student's frustration:

“I assumed once I spoke with a teller they would cancel the account, but two weeks later I was told there was more than $8,000 in overdraft in my account," she said.

While we need more details, it sounds like the bank is just looking for a patsy -- her.  So the bank, should we assume, did not cancel her account for two weeks after she informed them she had lost her card?

The bank's argument is interesting, but was pointed out, for a 4-digit pin there are 10,000 combinations and a savvy scammer with the right tools would figure it out pretty fast.

I tend to side with the customer here that after she informed the teller the teller should have cancelled the account instead of just kicking the can down the road.  Banks do this sort of thing all the time, typically under the guise of waiting for outstanding checks (or in Canada is it cheques?) to clear when what they need to do is cancel accounts and prevent additional fraud.

[dcontesti]

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@green20151 wrote:

Understood -- but I also understand the student's frustration:

“I assumed once I spoke with a teller they would cancel the account, but two weeks later I was told there was more than $8,000 in overdraft in my account," she said.

While we need more details, it sounds like the bank is just looking for a patsy -- her.  So the bank, should we assume, did not cancel her account for two weeks after she informed them she had lost her card?

The bank's argument is interesting, but was pointed out, for a 4-digit pin there are 10,000 combinations and a savvy scammer with the right tools would figure it out pretty fast.

I tend to side with the customer here that after she informed the teller the teller should have cancelled the account instead of just kicking the can down the road.  Banks do this sort of thing all the time, typically under the guise of waiting for outstanding checks (or in Canada is it cheques?) to clear when what they need to do is cancel accounts and prevent additional fraud.

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I see your points and agree that more information is needed.  She did say it was a debit card, so checks (yes it's cheques in Canada), should not have come into play but like you said, something is missing .

Regards

d

[CISOScott]

Good customer service would have been for the teller to cancel the card. Or instruct the customer where to go to cancel the card. Or ask if the customer wanted to cancel the card. My bank has the ability to print replacement cards onsite so there is only a 10-15 minute wait to print a new one and cancel the old one. 

I think the bank dropped the ball. If I were this student I would ask to speak to the bank president and then if still unsatisfied the local news media and an attorney would be the next steps.

Let me amend this by saying, AFTER an investigation to make sure it wasn't "lost" on purpose to a co-conspirator. Or that she didn't take a trip to a casino and then regret her decision.

Did the charges happen to occur during the one-day where she failed to report it lost? Then it may change the situation. I have seen fraud perpetuated like this.

[dcontesti]

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@CISOScott wrote:

Good customer service would have been for the teller to cancel the card. Or instruct the customer where to go to cancel the card. Or ask if the customer wanted to cancel the card. My bank has the ability to print replacement cards onsite so there is only a 10-15 minute wait to print a new one and cancel the old one. 

I think the bank dropped the ball. If I were this student I would ask to speak to the bank president and then if still unsatisfied the local news media and an attorney would be the next steps.

Let me amend this by saying, AFTER an investigation to make sure it wasn't "lost" on purpose to a co-conspirator. Or that she didn't take a trip to a casino and then regret her decision.

Did the charges happen to occur during the one-day where she failed to report it lost? Then it may change the situation. I have seen fraud perpetuated like this.

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From experience, (I lost a card), when I went to the bank, they immediately transferred me to Security Department so that any transactions from that moment on would not be charged to me so 

I fully agree that the teller dropped the ball but then I believe so did the client.

Also, agree that she should be escalating as far up in the bank as she can.

A very unfortunate lesson, hopefully the she and the bank can come to a "compromise"

[Caute_cautim]

@dcontestiYes, I would side with the bank on this one too.  The bank instructions are very clear, do not use anything which can be associated with you - it must be a unique number, which only you and bank will know.

Regards

Caute_cautim

[denbesten]

Without knowing the nature of the conversation with the teller, I can not know if the teller failed to cancel the card or if the losses occurred prior to reporting and/or due to customer negligence, so I must take the position that there are not enough facts-in-evidence to form an opinion, let alone assign fault.

The student should get the police involved to ensure an unbiased investigation. In Canada, theft over $5000 is an "indictable offense" ("felony" in the US), so there is a decent chance of getting their attention, instead of relying on investigators with an allegiance to the bank.

The biggest lesson is one not reported -- don't use debit cards.  Instead, use a credit card that has a "zero-liability" commitment and set its mobile app to alert you to all charges.