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RussCroft
Newcomer I

Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?

In a previous job I was involved in the creation of a certification exam course for the AZ-304 Azure Architect exam.   I spent weeks making that course (my part of it, anyway) and was wondering if I could use that for CPE B credits toward my CISSP.   If I can do so, what would be the best way to document the hours spent?  My name is on the course, but I didn't really have a way to show hours worked, even when I worked there?

 

Any advice would be welcome.

8 Replies
CraginS
Defender I

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?


@RussCroft wrote:

In a previous job I was involved in the creation of a certification exam course for the AZ-304 Azure Architect exam.   I spent weeks making that course (my part of it, anyway) and was wondering if I could use that for CPE B credits toward my CISSP.   If I can do so, what would be the best way to document the hours spent?  My name is on the course, but I didn't really have a way to show hours worked, even when I worked there?

 

Any advice would be welcome.


1. RTFM (and consider rtfm).

 

2. Submit a best-effort estimate statement of your hours worked on the project. For instance, showing how many weeks you worked on it, and an estimate of the amount of time each week, to lead to your total, should suffice.

 

3. You do not need ANY Type B CPE. You have a Type B limit, not a requirement. If you can meet the CPE requirement with all Type A, that is the way to go.

 

Good luck,

 

Craig

 

 

 

D. Cragin Shelton, DSc
Dr.Cragin@iCloud.com
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RussCroft
Newcomer I

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?

Yeah Craig, I *did* RTFM and felt it was still a bit vague on *how* the credits should be represented. 

"Best effort estimation" doesn't really describe a useful method, nor show proof, should the credits be audited, so the inherent snark of your oh-so-helpful "RTFM" only increases the irony set forth in your second "rtfm" when you use the phrase,  "Acting like a Professional".  Professional behavior includes offering assistance without back-of-the-hand commentary.

 

Perhaps you should consider a re-write of that "random thought" to which you linked, assuming you've healed from the hand injury you must have received patting yourself on the back after writing it.

 

I am trying to put forth an honest submission for CPE credit, and wanting to be thorough and clear, requested the learned opinion of those here for assistance, and instead received a frankly mean-spirited, self-indulgent, and as a result, entirely unwelcome response from you.  I thought better of this community and I sincerely hope your reply is not representative of the type of interactions I have here, going forward.

 

Feel free to reply with whatever witty rejoinder you feel is necessary to assuage your ego.  I myself will not reply as you have already clearly displayed both your character and "Professionalism" and I choose not to diminish myself further by interacting with you again.

 

Good luck,

 

~Russ

denbesten
Community Champion

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?

Think of it this way,  CPEs are all about improving your own personal body of knowledge.  So, course development only really garners CPEs to the extent that you need to do research and review topics as you prepare to teach them to others.

 

Group B really does not seem to apply as that is reserved for "enhancing [your own] professional skills including management, interpersonal communication, project planning, team building, etc."  Further, you are under no obligation to earn any Group-B credits, so it is best to concentrate on the Group-A.

 

In my estimation (which does not matter, as it is your ethics that must guide what you submit), this probably belongs under "Create New Industry Knowledge, which is described on page 15 of the handbook, specifically "Preparing existing training"  near the end of the CPE Rules section.  

 

What Craign was observing is that the standard of evidence for CPEs is "more likely than not".  Your goal needs to be to get the auditor to glance at it and say "yup, that seems reasonable".  It is not necessary to collect irrefutable evidence to a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.  If it we me, I would upload a copy of the "credits" slide and would stay within the handbook's hours-guidance.

CraginS
Defender I

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?


@RussCroft wrote:

Yeah Craig, I *did* RTFM and felt it was still a bit vague on *how* the credits should be represented. 

"Best effort estimation" doesn't really describe a useful method, nor show proof, should the credits be audited, so the inherent snark of your oh-so-helpful "RTFM" only increases the irony set forth in your second "rtfm" when you use the phrase,  "Acting like a Professional".  Professional behavior includes offering assistance without back-of-the-hand commentary.

..


Russ,

I am sorry for the miscommunication. There as no indication in your first post that you had looked at the CPE handbook, so I assumed you had not. (We see this in the Community a LOT when folks ask about a particular activity for CPE. That is why my pinned post at the top of CPE Opportunities suggests describing the part of the handbook that you do not understand and narrowing the questions that way,) In addition, we see a great many questions from those who mis-read the type A and B information and think they must have a certain number of CPE in Type B. Your focus on Type B for the Azure course caused me to assume you thought you had to have B CPE.

 

The suggestion to submit a "best effort" CPE count was based on 18 years of successfully completing more than 200 CPE units per year; the CPE submissions are for the most part an honor system, and as  William @denbesten said, "Your goal needs to be to get the auditor to glance at it and say 'yup, that seems reasonable.'  It is not necessary to collect irrefutable evidence to a 'beyond a reasonable doubt' standard."

 

I do have a bit of disagreement with William on the use of an Azure course for CPE. I consider more advanced grounding in any IT technology, and particularly in cloud technology, as essential to building infosec (cybersec) chops. Therefore, I definitely would count developing an Azure course as baseline Type B CPE. Further, if you are able to include infosec considerations in the course, I would claim Type A CPE for developing the course. 

 

Good luck,

 

Craig

 

 

D. Cragin Shelton, DSc
Dr.Cragin@iCloud.com
My Blog
My LinkeDin Profile
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denbesten
Community Champion

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?

@CraginS , here is a link to the AZ304 course.  It appears to be about 50% related to the domains of the CISSP (which is what @RussCroft holds).  And yes, I did presume that @RussCroft would read or re-read page 15 and catch onto the fact that "Create New Industry Knowledge" only applies to the extent that he worked on "creating new content for the topic related to [his] credential area of expertise". 

 

That said @RussCroft there may be a gotcha.  It appears that you may have achieved your CISSP subsequent to developing the course content.  If true, this entire line of discussion would be moot because the CPEs must be earned during your three-year cycle.  Activities performed prior to the start of you three-year cycle are not eligible.

 

And just to pick on @CraginS a bit, submitting 200 CPEs in one year is technically a violation of the rules because on page 5, it states "The total number of CPE credits earned within a three-year cycle must add up to the minimum CPE credits required during a three-year certification cycle."  Therefore, it is not possible to comply with the rule that you earn exactly 120 over three years.  And yes, I do agree that this quote from handbook appears to be missing an "at least".

CraginS
Defender I

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?


@denbesten wrote:

 

...

 

And just to pick on @CraginS a bit, submitting 200 CPEs in one year is technically a violation of the rules because on page 5, it states "The total number of CPE credits earned within a three-year cycle must add up to the minimum CPE credits required during a three-year certification cycle."  Therefore, it is not possible to comply with the rule that you earn exactly 120 over three years.  And yes, I do agree that this quote from handbook appears to be missing an "at least".


Interesting grammatical and logical problem; inclusion of the word minimum in that statement totally confuses the logic. 

I no longer have copies of the earlier CPE handbooks in force during my tenure as certified (2002-2020), but I suspect the earlier version did not have that error.

 

Craig

 

 

D. Cragin Shelton, DSc
Dr.Cragin@iCloud.com
My Blog
My LinkeDin Profile
My Community Posts
denbesten
Community Champion

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?


@CraginS wrote:
I suspect the earlier version did not have that error.

This verbiage was introduced somewhere between  April, 2015 and Nov 2017.  Most likely, when the short-lived annual CPE requirement was dropped in favor of returning to the triennial requirement.

 

RussCroft
Newcomer I

Re: Can I use online IT course creation credits for CPEs?

Hey all,

 

Unfortunately for me, while I definitely added to my skillset during course creation, I believe it still pretty much counts as job-duties to the degree that I really don't think it would be quite ethical for me to count any of those hours towards CPE credits.  So it goes...

 

Oh, and Craig, apologies for the aggression.  I shouldn't have allowed a bad day to make me quite so thin-skinned.

 

Thanks for the input everybody.

 

~R