topic Re: Ethical principals in Welcome

ISC2 scam

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 18:36:28 GMT

I passed the HCISPP exam in June 2018. I submitted documents they asked for to verify experience and dates. They kept asking for more and more documents, so I submitted sales receipts, a contract, and even a letter from my assistant to explain my job duties. They kept saying it’s not acceptable.

I’m not a corporation; I can’t get a supervisor to write a letter for me. Also, ISC2 requires another credentialed member to “sponsor” the candidate, but since I don’t know anyone who has the HCISPP credential, I had to use them (ISC2) as my sponsor. It sounds like a good-ol-boy system, where outsiders aren’t welcome.

It seems they want my proprietary information or trade secrets. I suppose since I didn’t take their $4,000 training program and walked in off the street and passed their exam, they find it hard to believe someone who’s not been working “in their world” could pass the muster. Given the fact that I am a sole proprietor and entrepreneur and not a player of their corporate world, they seem to have some bias against me.

They don’t even have the common courtesy to return a phone call as I requested.

This is my welcome to ISC2.

Re: ISC2 is a fraud

unixgeek21 — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 19:09:09 GMT

This must just be some kind of misunderstanding. You mentioned that you can't get a supervisor to write a letter for you...Can you get your client to write the letter and vouch your contract work you've done for them then? I take it that the HCISPP credential must be required or part of the contract?

Re: ISC2 scam

unixgeek21 — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 19:15:01 GMT

I recently got my CISSP credential and I did it all on my own self-paced study by reading the official certification book (Sybex) and other resoucres. I didn't go thru any official (ISC)2 training class as I simply couldn't afford it paying out on my pocket. Having said these, I don't think (ISC)2 will penalize or punish anyone not taking their official training class...

Re: ISC2 scam

Flyslinger2 — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 19:34:34 GMT

I have been concerned about the lack of consultant/small business entrepreneur capability within the ISC2 website. Most of my "adult" working career I was a self-employed small business owner. I was heavily involved with IAM during that time frame. The requirement by ISC2 to provide job offer letters is biased against this situation.

Re: ISC2 Scam

SamanthaO_isc2 — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 20:55:21 GMT

Hello @notetaker,

We have contacted Member Services, and they are familiar with your case. We recommend you continue to work through the team to resolve or clarify any questions you have about the endorsement process.

UPDATE: All posts related to this matter have been consolidated.

Re: ISC2 scam

fortean — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 20:30:54 GMT

@notetaker- very sorry to see you're disappointed. From my experience, the accreditation process works fine, and normally, when a person fails that process, he or she indeed should not be given the credential, sorry to say.

Yes, of course this is somewhat of what you call "an old boys network" - a group of peers, whom share common values, a Code of Ethics, and we even have initiation rites .. namely, that you have to sit for an exam, pass, then prove you have worked in the field, and yes, then "one of us", a person that sufficiently knows you, will have to endorse you. And then you are part, indeed, of a network of professionals. I can't, for the life of me, see what is wrong with that.

About the endorsement: my endorser was a friend an collegue of mine, who had worked with me for years, and was honoured that I asked him to endorse me and gladly did so. But I do agree that it is entirely possible to work in the field and not know any (ISC)² certified person that might endorse you. It is exactly for that reason that there is an alternate route: you can be endorsed by (ISC)². But - and that also makes perfect sense to me - given they haven't worked with you, requires additional documentation. I must say that I would not hire a person either when he showed me some sales receipts to prove his trustworthyness and professionalism. Perhaps a few letters of recommendation from your clients would help, or references from people that hired you, stuff like that.

About you not being accepted because you haven't sat "their 4000$ course": from my personal experience I can assure you that that makes no difference whatsoever. I passed my CISSP (and my CCSP, for that matter) by simply ordering the CBK (spending just a few tenners) and studying that. After passing the exam, I then provided my CV and some references, and one of my collegues endorsed me. I got accepted without any problems. So did many other people I know, so - no, that's not the reason.

I can't imagine that you'd need to convey trade secrets to convince (ISC)² that you can be a HCISSP. I most certainly did not have to do that to become a CISSP. However, let's see it from "the old boys" side: there is this gentleman that passes the exam, fails to give sufficient credentials to prove his experience in the field and knows nobody that can endorse him - heck, I'd be hesitant to hire you myself, if you showed me that track record.

You proved to be able to study theory - you passed the exam. But that's not what the (H)CISSP is all about, methinks. It is also about experience and trust, and given that you work in our trade, you should understand that they can't simply take your word for it.

Re: ISC2 scam

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 21:47:46 GMT

All were submitted. They are biased. Now they are trying to censor my comments here.

You're an insider, so of course you will try to protect the credibility of this corrupt organization.

Re: ISC2 Scam

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 21:49:14 GMT

Member services has failed to return phone calls and act in a professional manner. Therefore, I have no choice but to post my complaints online, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Re: ISC2 scam

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 21:51:59 GMT

@Flyslinger2 wrote:
I have been concerned about the lack of consultant/small business entrepreneur capability within the ISC2 website. Most of my "adult" working career I was a self-employed small business owner. I was heavily involved with IAM during that time frame. The requirement by ISC2 to provide job offer letters is biased against this situation.

Exactly, unless you're a corporate slave, you're an outsider. They don't like outsiders coming off the street and getting credentialed by their organization because they can't make money when you don't need their overpriced training for a big organization. That's how this org stays in business...

Re: ISC2 is a fraud

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 21:57:32 GMT

@unixgeek21 wrote:
This must just be some kind of misunderstanding. You mentioned that you can't get a supervisor to write a letter for you...Can you get your client to write the letter and vouch your contract work you've done for them then? I take it that the HCISPP credential must be required or part of the contract?

I'm a sole proprietor. I don't have a supervisor. I ask ISC2 if I could get a doctor to write a letter but they said "no." They don't even have trust in a doctor. I did have my administrative assistant write a letter, but they ignored it. I also submitted a contract showing the dates as a sole proprietor. This organization is biased against sole proprietors. Likewise, they can only make money if they sell you their overpriced training.

Re: Companies Are Relaxing Their Degree Requirements to Find Top Talent

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 22:02:04 GMT

@Shannon wrote:
@notetaker,it appears that you're venting out your frustrations on multiple sections of this forum; please avoid doing that. You can either communicate directly with their Customer Support, or else create a new post on the section for Member Support, detailing your case.

What are you, a liberal? You don't like hearing comments from others regarding the quality of service received? Get used to it. I have a right to post on this forum, and you don't own it. Take your advice and directions and shove it! You're a crony. Thanks for sharing your LinkedIn...now we can know where to find you.

Re: Companies Are Relaxing Their Degree Requirements to Find Top Talent

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 22:04:04 GMT

You don't own the board and you have no legitimacy here. I can and will post as I choose. If you don't like it, don't use this board. One thing's for sure: You're not going to tell me what I can and can't do. Save your trolling for those who give a hoot!

Re: Ethical principals

notetaker — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 22:08:20 GMT

When an organization doesn't have the common courtesy to return a phone call to discuss an issue, you know they're corrupt and unethical.

This isn't defamatory, it's fact. And facts will be shown in court. You may allow others to defraud you, but I won't have it.

Re: ISC2 scam

denbesten — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 22:38:37 GMT

@notetaker (Derek Hooker),

There are a bit over 1000 HCISPPs and about 130,000 other (ISC)² certificate holders that have all successfully demonstrated "N-years cumulative paid work experience in one or more knowledge areas of the CBK", at least 12,000 of whom are on this community. And yes, a certain percentage will have worked solely on a consulting basis.

Think of this like landing a new client, but with the added requirement that you be able to demonstrate your claims. So, when report having spent 6 months helping Contoso Labs perform 3rd party risk assessments be prepared to supply evidence, such as a copy of your contract, your weekly status reports, the 1099 (to prove the work was "paid"), contact information for a reference at Contoso or maybe even a written recommendation from your primary contact at Contoso.

Seeing that you are new here (your community account was created today), I get that you have not had a chance to absorb the culture of this community. There are a whole bunch of friendly, helpful members that follow all of the groups and often have all new posts sent to their email. As a result, many of us received 5 nearly identical emails over the course of an hour. It would have served all of us (including yourself) much better had you started a new topic and posted just one copy. Also, it is important to realize that much of this board is visible to future clients and employers with a simple Google search. If you wish to revise your posts, there is an "edit" option under the three-dot menu to the right of your posting. Deleting a post is accomplished by selecting "report inappropriate content" from the same menu.

Re: Ethical principals

j_M007 — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 22:26:44 GMT

You are very upset, and I understand that.

Letting off steam like this may feel good for a while, but see if you can control some of the emotion. I have been in your position before for other certifications. Some I got, others not so much. I had to suck it up and keep on truckin'.

If you can do an analysis of what (the rather stringent) requirements are and compare them to your situation, this may help you to put it in perspective.

As a professional organization, the members wish to act in good faith and to assist, Remember, these are your colleagues and potential customers: professionals across all industries have great respect for those who keep going

A passing grade allows you to get the experience needed to attain CISSP via the Associate of (ISC_2 credential). This may be the first place to go as you continue to accumulate experience.

I wish you excellent success and continual improvement on your way to achieve your goals.

Re: Companies Are Relaxing Their Degree Requirements to Find Top Talent

billclancy — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 22:51:29 GMT

Been in IT a long time and as others have mentioned, the requirements for degrees seem to ebb and flow with the economic picture. I have no degree, but I have lots of formal education in electronics, and some pretty popular IT/Security certifications. That being said...just about 2 months ago my program manager took me aside and reminded me that I didn't have a 4 year degree, and that that would make it difficult for him to get me a raise this year. Three weeks later I had three written offers in my hand, and I showed them to him before submitting a letter of resignation. He offered to "Meet me in the middle". Really? I took the 15k raise and headed off to another contract, and I'd do it again. That's how this game works.

Re: Ethical principals

Early_Adopter — Sat, 08 Sep 2018 01:03:53 GMT

@notetaker That’s pretty much the non sequitur in that there are many reasons for not returning a phone call, and my experience tell me that corrupt an unethical are probably not the only or even the main ones. I’m sure that many corrupt and unethical people are in the balance quite good about returning calls.

I’d disagree with you on your statements being proven as fact(I’d say they are a firmly held opinion), or that I would allow myself to be defrauded. However if you genuinely feel that you have been defrauded you have accurately identified that you have recourse to the law, and can litigate and present evidence to try to prove your claim.

Re: Ethical principals

notetaker — Sat, 08 Sep 2018 01:30:34 GMT

And that's why you're a slave to others. You create nothing original and come from the same lot of group think.

Re: Ethical principals

notetaker — Sat, 08 Sep 2018 01:36:39 GMT

So you're one of those who can read people's emotions online, eh? Where did you get your psychology degree? From ISC2? I won't be doing business with anyone who holds a credential from this fraudulent organization. You've shown that you condone fraud and the good-ol-boy system. Who would want to do business with that type? Now I understand clearly why people choose AHIMA for their credentials.

Re: Ethical principals

Early_Adopter — Sat, 08 Sep 2018 01:41:31 GMT

Well, actually I came from just over there, it seems to me like it was just a little while ago...