topic Re: PKI and Quantum Computing in Tech Talk

PKI and Quantum Computing

Tiger — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 09:08:49 GMT

The thought of Quantum computing advances and Quantum computers being freely available will make our current cryptographic systems redundant. PKI will expire soon. Are there new algorithms being developed and also what is the approach. Is the NSA doing something about this? Is it something on your Organisation's radar today ?

https://www.yemi.tech/info-sec-blog/2018/2/15/quantum-computing-breakthrough-a-new-threat-to-cryptographic-systems

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

AppDefects — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 14:22:47 GMT

A lot of people still dispel the myth of quantum computing, but the threat to "traditional" cryptographic algorithms is real. Even Bruce Schneier agrees. NSA has issued interim guidance (basically, use longer keys) to guide organizations prior to transitioning to quantum resistant algorithms. Notably, NIST is currently working with cryptographers on Post-Quantum Standardization. here's a link to the project: https://csrc.nist.gov/Projects/Post-Quantum-Cryptography/Post-Quantum-Cryptography-Standardization

Also, look for Quantum-Cloud-Computing as-a-service to take off. Today, you can get time on IBM Q, D-Wave, Forest, and even with Microsoft Azure integration. Hello AWS where are you in this space?

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

rslade — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:52:45 GMT

> Tiger (Viewer) posted a new topic in Tech Talk on 03-13-2019 07:57 AM in the

> The thought of Quantum computing advances and Quantum computers being freely
> available will make our current cryptographic systems redundant.

[Sigh.]

I've been studying the security implications of quantum computing for more than a dozen years, now. We are not quite at quantumpocalypse yet.

> PKI will expire
> soon.

First, it's only asymmetric crypto that is under any threat. In fact, the Shor algorithm only works against RSA, so DH and ECC are still reasonably safe. In fact, even if all those *are* attackable (which is probably likely, in the long term) we can still go back to symmetric and Kerberos.

Second, it's taking a while to get full-scale quantum computers online. The largest quantum processor is only around 200 qubits, and it's not a full quantum computer so it doesn't run the Shor algorithm. The largest full-scale quantum computer is currently only about 50 qubits. We are going to need a full-scale machine of around 2,000 qubits to seriously attack current asymmetric systems. I'd estimate that is at least 5 years away. And, even then, you could make asymmetric keys bigger. (Meaning you'd need larger quantum computers.)

Third, please don't confuse the existing "quantum cryptography" with using quantum computers to crack crypto. Quantum cryptography isn't crypto at all: it's just key exchange.
https://www.welivesecurity.com/2014/01/24/rob-slade-the-truth-about-quantum-
cryptography-and-what-it-means-for-privacy/

> Are there new algorithms being developed and also what is the approach.

Yes, new algorithms are being researched and developed all the time, and a particular field of interest right now is quantum-proof crypto. The approach is to learn about cryptography. Seriously.

> Is the NSA doing something about this?

Yes.

> Is it something on your Organisation's
> radar today ?

Actually, quantum computing will have much more serious effects on a number of areas of security besides crypto, and it might not even be the most important ...
http://itsecurity.co.uk/2016/09/security-implications-quantum-computing/

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Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

AppDefects — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 20:43:47 GMT

Good points @rslade. Progress is being made on the hardware and we need more qubits to reduce the error rate. We also need to get more Comp Sci students pairing their degrees with Electrical Engineering and Physics so that they understand the technology that they are programming - think STEM but on steroids. Awesome programmers in any of the quantum languages (e.g. QCL, Q#, LIQUi|> is going to be essential because someone is going to have to program Shor's discovery and Grover's algorithm. We need people that understand the the emerging software architecture for quantum. Here's an example https://www.dwavesys.com/software

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

rslade — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 01:00:36 GMT

> AppDefects (Newcomer I) mentioned you in a post! Join the conversation below:

> We also need to get more Comp Sci
> students pairing their degrees with Electrical Engineering and Physics so
> that they understand the technology that they are programming

There is that ...

> Awesome programmers in any of the quantum languages (e.g.
> QCL, Q#,Â LIQUi|> is going to be essential because someone is going to have
> to program Shor's discovery and Grover's algorithm.

Yup. It's going to be very different even from the concepts that current
programmers have.

> We need people that
> understand the the emerging software architecture for quantum.

Indeed.

> Here's an
> example https://www.dwavesys.com/software

Just a handful of miles from here 🙂

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Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

rslade — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 15:32:05 GMT

@AppDefects wrote:

Also, look for Quantum-Cloud-Computing as-a-service to take off. Today, you can get time on IBM Q, D-Wave, Forest, and even with Microsoft Azure integration.

And, apparently, Google ...

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

Caute_cautim — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 05:52:44 GMT

I suggest we should look beyond Quantum Cryptography, to Post Quantum Cryptography and beyond:

https://www.research.ibm.com/5-in-5/lattice-cryptography/

Things are moving so fast, we need to deal with the speed of light developments going on in order to combat the ongoing onslaught, which bound to keep a whole bunch of us safely employed for many a year - well beyond are expected retirement ages.

"Lattice-based cryptography isn’t only for thwarting future quantum computers. It is also the basis of another encryption technology called Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE). FHE could make it possible to perform calculations on a file without ever seeing sensitive data or exposing it to hackers."

Quantum Computing will enable us to fully enable FHE - it is a stepping stone.

There is huge sums available for research purposes in this field.

Regards

Caute_cautim

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

AppDefects — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 18:25:59 GMT

@Caute_cautim wrote:
Quantum Computing will enable us to fully enable FHE - it is a stepping stone.

Hopefully a day will come when we can all realize Craig Gentry's work on FHE using ideas lattices...

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

Kerling — Wed, 01 May 2019 08:45:27 GMT

I'd like to amend to that, the NIST Quantum crytpo competition is currently in its second round: https://csrc.nist.gov/Projects/Post-Quantum-Cryptography

Any other questions around the topic, alike how to deal with it in a professional environment, feel free to contact me. (Not for setting up quantum safe PKI's though)

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

rslade — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:14:48 GMT

Both an amusing take on the controversy and a resource for ongoing "news" is the "Quantum Bullshirt Detector" Twitter account (which the dreaded "community pr0n filter will not let me post, but which you can search for if you correct the "shirt") ...

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

FredrickB — Thu, 18 Feb 2021 14:50:10 GMT

Hi, fresh here so apologies for any mistakes by me! A question about RSA, strenghth and quantum computing (qubits), I have heard in conferences and lectures over the past years quite different stories on how many qubits it takes to actually break RSA cryptography, a range from "a few" to "several hundreds", I guess this also depends on the quality of the qubits and their entanglement, but does anyone have a good estimate?

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

rslade — Thu, 18 Feb 2021 19:14:37 GMT

> FredrickB (Viewer) posted a new reply in Tech Talk on 02-18-2021 09:50 AM in the

> Hi, fresh here so apologies for any mistakes by me! A question about RSA,
> strenghth and quantum computing (qubits), I have heard in conferences and
> lectures over the past years quite different stories on how many qubits it takes
> to actually break RSA cryptography, a range from "a few" to "several hundreds",
> I guess this also depends on the quality of the qubits and their entanglement,
> but does anyone have a good estimate?

Using the Shor algorithm you need twice as many qubits as the length of the key.
So, to break a 4,000 bit key, you need a machine with 8,000 qubits.

Since, except for D-Wave, we are only barely into double digits on most quantum
computers, we have some ways to go. (D-Wave doesn't count, since it is best
described as a quantum co-processor, rather than a full-fledged quantum computer.
Specifically, it cannot run the Shor algorithm.)

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Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

waltzie — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 15:30:19 GMT

Nist is at final stage to define PQC Algorithm

@https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/post-quantum-cryptography

The only big problem is .. htat those will be good untill someone else will find Qauntum Algorithms to break them.
The best way is start to consider the Crypto Agility as a must.

Re: PKI and Quantum Computing

Caute_cautim — Mon, 29 Jan 2024 20:29:06 GMT

HI @rslade

The main issue is having sufficient Quantum Memory which is stable enough to accommodate the Quantum Cryptography algorithms in order to break the RSA keys, there have been some exaggerations from various sources, which under scrutiny fail.

We may reach that level in 2026 or up to 2031 - the race is on at the present time.

Although the State Actors are actively working underground to achieve this pouring vast sums into the research and technologies required.

Regards

Caute_Cautim