topic Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ... in Industry News

OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

rslade — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 20:32:36 GMT

Those aged 65 or older share "fake news" more than anybody ...

The actual study ...

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Caute_cautim — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:41:26 GMT

@rsladeIt would be interesting to understand any bias the analysts/developers introduced into the classier itself without being aware this was happening at all. Perhaps a study should be carried out on the actual analysts/developers themselves to ensure their particular cognitive bias was fully understood and subtracted from the study itself too.

There could be other factors as well, how dependent are the participants on the Internet based news and sources, how did they gain sufficient confidence and trust that they were accurate in the first place.

Regards

PS Respectively, I have no information as whether or not you are over 65 yourself..... Tongue in cheek.

@rslade wrote:
Those aged 65 or older share "fake news" more than anybody ...

The actual study ...

Caute_cautim

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Shannon — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 04:09:33 GMT

I've not checked this survey, but I can say that it all boils down to the users' awareness (from exposure) and attitude.

Take 3 actual scenarios, the scope being my family & friends, limited to WhatsApp communication. We'll look at the age group and consider their occupation, and relate this to the above.

Case 1

My mum tends to forward ALL messages she gets to ALL others, so I told her that while it's okay if they're jokes, she should otherwise 1st check their credibility.

Results: With Age Group: > 60 & Occupation: Non-IT, I had Awareness: Absent & Attitude: Wrong

Aftermath: She only sends me jokes nowadays, & I doubt her other contacts still don't receive her forwards.

Case 2

A friend who's in a WhatsApp group sends out a hell of a lot of forwards, which pretty often, are hoaxes. It came as a surprise coz he's in IT. When I reprimanded him, he says he'l fully aware of the probability, but sends out the messages nonetheless.

Results: With Age Group: < 40 & Occupation: IT, I had Awareness: Adequate & Attitude: Wrong

Aftermath: His forwards continue, but I don't pay attention to them --- unless they're about the weather.

Case 3

Someone in WhatsApp group related to IT Security, wherein someone recently sent a message to ask about the possibility of a hoax --- after which I sent him a rather blunt response, shown in the picture below.

Results: With Age Group: < 30 & Occupation: IT Security, I had Awareness: Inadequate & Attitude: Right

Aftermath: He left the group.

@rslade, if you want to participate in this, you'll have to provide your age...

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Shannon — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 04:19:48 GMT

Correction to my earlier post: For Case 1, Attitude: Unknown, and for Case 3, Attitude: Wrong

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

rslade — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 08:45:37 GMT

> Shannon (Contributor III) mentioned you in a post! Join the conversation below:

> @rslade, if you want to participate in this, you'll have to provide
> your age...

I was born old ...

(... and I haven't got white hair just because I work in security ...)

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Flyslinger2 — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 17:43:07 GMT

Oh my. This dredges up memories of my dad. After mom died we kids pooled our resources and got him tech so that he could keep up with us and the grands. Phones are obsolete as you know. Everything he either read, got in email or had in his FB wall was forwarded on because, as you know, if it was on Al Gore's wonderful internet it had to be truth (Dad was a hard core liberal so he and AL were best buds). No amount of education would change his activities. Sadly, I wish he was still here to flood my inbox with useless crap.

Who determines what is truth? You have those who believe that we are all going to be frozen bricks in 5 years and the opposite that we are minutes away from frying up from the sun in global warming. YouGOV, cited in the article as being the main source of polling data, could have a bias towards it's data gathering, the technology used to analyze that data and the delivery of that data. Then how is that information interpreted once it is delivered?

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Shannon — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 04:06:33 GMT

@Flyslinger2 wrote:
Oh my. This dredges up memories of my dad.

You just reminded me that my Dad could have been the 4th unwitting participant here. He was content using his phone just to make calls & send out SMS --- back then, it was meant to do little more than that. Towards the end of his career, the organization changed the corporate devices to those with a touch-screen, but he didn't hide the fact that he wasn't too happy with that.

Once he retired, we 'forced' a smartphone on him, and now, it's some consolation that he's using WhatsApp and Email on the device. Nonetheless, he's never taken to social media & messaging, and always prefers to call / actually talk rather than avail of all that.

So including him in this, the results would be :

Case 1

Age group: > 60 Occupation: Non-IT

Awareness: Absent Attitude: Unknown

Case 2

Age group: > 60 Occupation: Non-IT

Awareness: Limited Attitude: Right

Case 3

Age group: < 40 Occupation: IT

Awareness: Adequate Attitude: Wrong

Case 4

Age group: < 30 Occupation: IT

Awareness: Inadequate Attitude: Right

No doubt the 'survey' population was microscopic, but I'll say that the subjects' age isn't of much significance; it's their attitude --- which can be influenced by multiple factors --- that ultimately matters.

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

dcontesti — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 14:08:05 GMT

@rslade @Shannon

Unfortunately, I can attest to Rob being over 50 but under 90.....you see he and I were both born older than dirt and although I would like to blame my white hair on Security, I can't.

I have to agree that most "older.....not just over 65" people to pass fake news/information along. Although lately I am seeing some mid- 40ish folk pass some stupid stuff around on the internet. I especially like the ones for free trips for Disney if you cut and paste on the Internet or the Costco vouchers.

I believe people forget, and they see something that is too good to be true and they want to share.

One wonders if the younger generation who seem to be more technically aware will fall into the same traps....oh wait, they do something called "Sexting".

It's a matter of education and repeat education, just like grade school when fractions (hey do they still teach those) were repeated through almost every grade.

Just my thoughts on an oh too early Monday morning

Diana

PS: Rob, remember I was trying to be nice with the over 50.

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Shannon — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:04:55 GMT

@dcontesti wrote:

Unfortunately, I can attest to Rob being over 50 but under 90.....you see he and I were both born older than dirt and although I would like to blame my white hair on Security, I can't.

If hair color was among the survey criteria, there'd have been 2 more participants...

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

rslade — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:10:23 GMT

> Flyslinger2 (Contributor II) posted a new reply in Industry News on 01-13-2019

> ... Oh my. This dredges up memories of my dad.

Well, since this thread has devolved into family reminiscences ...

You all realize that if you *ever* fix *anything* for *any* of your relatives, you are thereafter required to be free technical support for it for the rest of your life ...

(When you are a security maven, your friends and family are there to embarrass you. There was the time my Mom walked into the largest security conference in Vancouver and admitted that she had just responded to a phishing attack ...)

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

rslade — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:24:12 GMT

> dcontesti (Contributor I) mentioned you in a post! Join the conversation below:

> PS: Rob, remember I was trying to be nice with the over 50.

🙂

Not to worry. (At least you put in the "under 90" 🙂

Also remember that, while I am a newcomer (from your perspective) to ISC2, I took my CISSP way late. (Although I do remember the first calls for submissions to the exam, even before they had settled on the org and cert names. That was a couple of years after I had started researching computer viral programs, but I didn't get involved with the creation of the exam because "security" people didn't think viruses were a security problem, back then.)

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Caute_cautim — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:41:06 GMT

Brilliant, and you have been telling the story ever since.

"Truth is a term used to indicate various forms of accord with fact or reality, or fidelity to an original or to a standard or ideal. The opposite of truth is falsehood, which, correspondingly, can also take on logical, factual, or ethical meanings. Language and words are a means by which humans convey information to one another in semiotic associations, and the method used to recognize a truth is termed a criterion of truth. There are differing claims as to what constitutes truth, what things are truthbearers capable of being true or false, how to define and identify truth, the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play, and whether truth is subjective or objective, relative or absolute. " Source: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Truth

Whereas Bias is deemed to be:

"Bias is disproportionate weight in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

Biases can be learned by watching cultural contexts. People may develop biases toward or against an individual, an ethnic group, a sexual or gender identity, a nation, a religion, a social class, a political party, theoretical paradigms and ideologies within academic domains, or a species.[1] Biased means one-sided, lacking a neutral viewpoint, or not having an open mind. Bias can come in many forms and is related to prejudice and intuition.

In science and engineering, a bias is a systematic error. Statistical bias results from an unfair sampling of a population, or from an estimation process that does not give accurate results on average."

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias

Regards

Caute_cautim

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Shannon — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 05:34:40 GMT

@rslade wrote:

You all realize that if you *ever* fix *anything* for *any* of your relatives, you are thereafter required to be free technical support for it for the rest of your life ...

I couldn't agree more! But I've been playing it safe. For example, when my Mum recently complained that her smart phone was getting slow and asked if I could speed it up, I told her it might call for removing free apps & the like that she had on it. After that, she didn't ask me again.

Of course, at times there's no avoiding it --- in which case I'll take steps to reduce the impact of forgetfulness. Few years back I assisted an uncle with making a purchase from my computer, after which I felt compelled to send him an email, despite having it verbally confirmed...

So if they're going by 'Don't hate the player, hate the game,' there's not doubt that I've inadvertently given my relatives a reason to dislike IT Security....

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

rslade — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 17:54:22 GMT

> Shannon (Contributor III) posted a new reply in Industry News on 01-15-2019

> But I've been
> playing it safe. For example, when my Mum recently complained that her smart
> phone was getting slow and asked if I could speed it up, I told her it might
> call for removing free apps & the like that she had on it. After that, she
> didn't ask me again.

Yeah. Being a virus expert, a *lot* of my friends would ask me to check their
machines when something odd was happening. Those requests dropped off
enormously when they realized that the first thing I would ask was "Have you been
letting your kids [download games|use P2P file sharing|etc]?"

====================== (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer)
rslade@vcn.bc.ca slade@victoria.tc.ca rslade@computercrime.org
This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be
thrown with great force. - Dorothy Parker
victoria.tc.ca/techrev/rms.htm http://twitter.com/rslade
http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/author/p1/
https://is.gd/RotlWB

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Caute_cautim — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 18:27:41 GMT

In walks the general manager, he states you know all about security, my friend a fellow CEO has a problem, I would like you look at and advise him. Like a good Kiwi.... He suspects that someone internally or externally is eavesdropping on their important e-mail exchanges. So one duly advises the General Manager to inform his friend the CEO, that perhaps he should bring in a licensed forensic investigator recognised by a court of law - because I do not believe in human behaviour, unless you get a written submission stating they will not prosecute based on your findings. Would you believe the CEO, when they state do your best - we won't take it to a court of law or we won't prosecute. However as we know, whoever touches the keyboard, effectively owns the situation and everything that goes with it, in such cases.

Would you believe the CEO?

Regards

Caute_cautim

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Shannon — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:11:58 GMT

@Caute_cautim wrote:

Would you believe the CEO?

There's always the possibility that you'll be made a scapegoat at an organization, so it's best to take a CYA (Cover Your A**) approach. No doubt I can't add this to our organisation's Security Policy (), but I follow and promote it for just about everything, nonetheless.

If I'm asked to carry out any kind of task at work, I ensure that I've got a proper approval from management before I go ahead. If it's an emergency, I'll record the initial communication and document authorization at a later stage. Wherever there are any issues / risks, etc, I formally notify the management about this.

I think trusting anyone at work to the extent that you're confident nothing will bounce back at you is a risk...

Re: OK, so I don't know why you guys should believe anything I post ...

Caute_cautim — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:50:32 GMT

@Shannon I am in total agreement. I advised the General Manager and gave him reasons, why we should not be involved, with a full explanation.

Regards

Caute_cautim