topic Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising... in Member Support

Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Shannon — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:50:40 GMT

Nowadays, the majority of topics on the community tend to be about issues being faced --- often mentioning a lack of member support --- & one of the community moderators has to jump in to assist.

So I have to ask: was this community actually intended to supplement (ISC)2 support? (Because I was under the impression that it was to facilitate the sharing of information and ideas, and promote interaction among IT security professionals.)

It would be understandable if the issues were limited to what (ISC)2 support wasn't able to address --- what's disturbing is that many have stated that (ISC)2 support never responded at all.

If community posts aren't used to gauge criteria such as member satisfaction, I'd suggest that (ISC)2 conduct a survey for the same --- and use the results to determine the priority with which to address issues.

@david-shearer, do have someone update the resolution status of the issues mentioned in this post, for a better idea of where we stand. Thanks.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Frank_Mayer — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:57:25 GMT

There are serious issues with the roll out to the new system. (ISC)2 needs to get on with trusting their local chapter officers to be able to correct things for other members in the region in the system with an override capability when their automated systems fail. What is the point of having local chapters if the officers in the chapter can't clean up the system. Massive centralized control always fails. No organization has the resources to manage that many records unless they have a legion of administrative people. It is to the point of absurdity that in 2019 we are using e-mail and other hand jam methods to maintain training records.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Flyslinger2 — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:22:44 GMT

This was the "greeting" I received this morning when I checked in:

4 of the 5 new posts were about issues with ISC2. Instead of what the community was designed for, as @Shannon mentioned, it's a glorified help desk.

ISC2. Can't you do better?

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

AppDefects — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 13:32:13 GMT

It is sad that the sentiment of members is so low when it comes to membership services, but that "channel" is there by design isn't it? Are they understaffed? Do they lack automation? I don't think people call support and tell them what a great job they are doing, maybe we should once in a while, we only hear about the problems.

The lack of support showing in the public record is tarnishing the Gold Standard and @david-shearer needs to be acutely aware of that because that impacts the entire membership.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

AlecTrevelyan — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 15:58:15 GMT

@AppDefects wrote:
It is sad that the sentiment of members is so low when it comes to membership services, but that "channel" is there by design isn't it? Are they understaffed? Do they lack automation? I don't think people call support and tell them what a great job they are doing, maybe we should once in a while, we only hear about the problems.

The lack of support showing in the public record is tarnishing the Gold Standard and @david-shearer needs to be acutely aware of that because that impacts the entire membership.

I think prior to the "digital transformation" they were adequately staffed, but due to the numerous issues caused by the "upgrades" and these issues requiring the membership to constantly keep having to contact member services they are now woefully understaffed.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

emb021 — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:12:38 GMT

Well, as a member who's been in for 5+ years, I see many of these issues affecting others.

When I joined, it took them about 4 weeks to process my application (I tracked that, as I was curious and was comparing them to ISACA which was about the same amount of time). Now its taking them about 8 weeks to do this. Not sure the time on receiving my actual certificate, as I didn't track that. When I got my last set of certs, I don't recall it being too long.

I saw the rollout of the new CPE portal, and haven't had too many issues myself. Tho I didn't like that my ISSA Chapter meeting CPEs got changed to ISC2 Chapter meetings. I don't like that one item I was audited for, while I answered that audit, it still shows up in red. Very annoying. And I've seen the issues from others to get in to the portal. Happened with one of my co-workers who recently got his first ISC2 cert.

Then we have the matter of the switch of the AMF fees. While I will be paying less per year, I didn't like the fact I had to pay out more this year to get in line. I think this was handled poorly, and should have been done differently, unless ISC2 is so hurting for money that had to do it this way.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Frank_Mayer — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:34:58 GMT

I just got through and talked to member services and to their credit, they informed me that I am OK regardless of what the (ISC)2 member Portal shows right now. The fact is that the recent updates to the system means things will not get straightened out in some cases like mine until next week. That is OK with me now that they have confirmed I am actually good to go.

The roll out should have gone much smoother but at least they have real people that you can talk to at (ISC)2 Member Services to get things straightened out. You just have to be patient.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

AppDefects — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:39:46 GMT

@Frank_Mayer wrote:
I just got through and talked to member services and to their credit, they informed me that I am OK regardless of what the (ISC)2 member Portal shows right now. The fact is that the recent updates to the system means things will not get straightened out in some cases like mine until next week. That is OK with me now that they have confirmed I am actually good to go.

The roll out should have gone much smoother but at least they have real people that you can talk to at (ISC)2 Member Services to get things straightened out. You just have to be patient.

Verbal confirmation good luck with that

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Frank_Mayer — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:41:50 GMT

They actually gave it to me in writing as well.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

rslade — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 18:10:39 GMT

> Shannon (Community Champion) posted a new topic in Member Support on 07-11-2019

> Nowadays, the majority of topics on the community tend to be about issues
> being faced --- often mentioning a lack of member support --- & one of the
> community moderators has to jump in to assist. So I have to ask: was this
> community actually intended to supplement (ISC)2 support?

I have been wondering the same thing, myownself. Often, very often, the fix is
not even provided by one of the moderators. A number of the posts result in one
of us; either the "champions" or one or another of the more active "community"
members; providing an answer or a fix for the problem raised. I wonder if the
"community" was created more as an attempt to take the heat off member
support so that ISC2 could continue at minimal levels of staffing. (Saving money,
doncha know.)

> (Because I was under
> the impression that it was to facilitate the sharing of information and ideas,
> and promote interaction among IT security professionals.)

Yeah, but if ISC2 had wanted that, they wouldn't have killed the forum.

> It would be
> understandable if the issues were limited to what (ISC)2 support wasn't able to
> address --- what's disturbing is that many have stated that (ISC)2 support never
> responded at all.

Remember that "minimal levels of staffing" point ...

> If community posts aren't used to gauge criteria such as
> member satisfaction, I'd suggest that (ISC)2 conduct a survey for the same ---
> and use the results to determine the priority with which to address issues.

I'm sure that ISC2 HQ has conducted an internal opinion survey, and has come to
the conclusion that they are of the opinion that, if it negatively impacts the bank
accoount, they aren't interested.

> @david-shearer, do have someone update the resolution status of the issues
> mentioned in this post, for a better idea of where we stand.

I await his response with bated breath.

(I'm quite willing to bet actual money that his response, if any, will be a non-
response.)

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Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

rslade — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 18:47:19 GMT

> Frank_Mayer (Newcomer III) posted a new reply in Member Support on 07-11-2019

> What is the point of having local chapters if the
> officers in the chapter can't clean up the system.

Your statement contains a mistaken assumption. ISC2 is not interested in the Chapters having any actual power: ISC2 simply wants another (free or low cost) marketing platform/effort/volunteer(s).

> Massive centralized control
> always fails.

I think your point is amply made by the new payment system, which appears to have had a drastic negative impact on the whole ISC2 enterprise.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

rslade — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:38:39 GMT

> Frank_Mayer (Newcomer III) posted a new reply in Member Support on 07-11-2019

> You just have to
> be patient.

*VERY* patient ...

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And nobody knows where it really ends.
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Are in the circle that never begins.
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Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

emb021 — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:42:24 GMT

@rslade wrote:
> Frank_Mayer (Newcomer III) posted a new reply in Member Support on 07-11-2019

> You just have to
> be patient.

*VERY* patient ...

Builds character...

You're welcome...

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

AppDefects — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 20:02:09 GMT

The only metric that matters when it comes to satisfaction is the number of certification renewals. Those stats could be quite telling this year, if released...

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

emb021 — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 20:32:12 GMT

@AppDefects wrote:
The only metric that matters when it comes to satisfaction is the number of certification renewals. Those stats could be quite telling this year, if released...

Maybe.

But many people have to obtain and keep their certifications due to job requirements. So they don't have much of a choice in that regard.

I know when I was job hunting the lack of certs lost me a lot of interviews. As a consultant with a company, I know that they wouldn't be able to submit for many bids if I didn't have certs that many groups are requiring.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Shannon — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 21:11:14 GMT

@Flyslinger2 wrote:
4 of the 5 new posts were about issues with ISC2. Instead of what the community was designed for, as @Shannon mentioned, it's a glorified help desk.

Exactly. In my case, I'm greeted by such things when I check my inbox. Take a look at the most recent view, where at least 7 posts relate to 'satisfaction.'

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

rslade — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:11:42 GMT

> AppDefects (Contributor III) posted a new reply in Member Support on 07-11-2019

> I don't think people call support and tell them what a
> great job they are doing, maybe we should once in a while, we only hear about
> the problems.

This is a statement that can only come from someone who has spent some time

in customer/tech support 🙂

(At one point I was making this complaint, and Gloria suggested that I put up a list, on the wall, with all the problems I had to solve, and then mark or cross them off as they were done, to get a sense of accomplishment, at a glance, when I got discouraged. It worked, and had other, unforeseen, beneficial consequences as well.)

> The lack of support showing in the public record is tarnishing
> the Gold Standard and @david-shearer needs to be acutely aware of that because
> that impacts the entire membership.

In my dictionary, I said, in the entry for "gold standard," that it was the best practice for describing your standard, if you wanted people to buy into it. (In the entry for "best practice," I said it was the gold standard for security buzzphrases.)

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Shannon — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:14:34 GMT

@AlecTrevelyan wrote:
I think prior to the "digital transformation" they were adequately staffed, but due to the numerous issues caused by the "upgrades" and these issues requiring the membership to constantly keep having to contact member services they are now woefully understaffed.

Be that as it may, it doesn't justify the performance now --- before taking the decision to remodel the site, the impact should have been considered, and adjustments made accordingly.

If this decision was taken by the BOD without considering all that, then it was VERY bad judgement; if they weren't adequately informed about potential impacts, it implies bad management.

It seems like they've neglected good housekeeping via Change Management when carrying this out.

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

AlecTrevelyan — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 09:18:03 GMT

We'll get to find out all the details in a three-part mini series. Part one starting next week:

https://community.isc2.org/t5/ISC-Updates/ISC-2-s-Digital-Transformation-Journey-Webcast-Tues-July-16-2019/ba-p/25116

Re: Member Dissatisfaction rising...

Shannon — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 09:33:21 GMT

@AlecTrevelyan wrote:
We'll get to find out all the details in a three-part mini series. Part one starting next week:

https://community.isc2.org/t5/ISC-Updates/ISC-2-s-Digital-Transformation-Journey-Webcast-Tues-July-16-2019/ba-p/25116

Thanks; I hope this will explain it all. After all the waiting we've done, a few days seems a trivial time, even if it's not for a change.