topic Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2 in Member Support

Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 03:44:57 GMT

Let me explain a bit about myself first:

I'm sixteen-year-old and I'm skipping my senior year at high school and directly going to a Cyber Security Engineering bachelor's program. I want to get everything (bachelors, masters, industry certifications) done as fast as possible.

I don't have enough experience to get the actual certification and I know it is against the code of ethics to say that I got the actual certification. Can I still put CISSP in the test score section on Linkedin? That way, I'm not saying that I have the certification but I'm not hiding the fact that I passed.

I'm just asking because I'm already on studying domain two and don't want to be disappointed when I pass. Or worse, be banned from (ISC)2

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

denbesten — Tue, 14 May 2019 05:17:06 GMT

@om wrote:
...I'm skipping my senior year at high school

Not having a high school diploma will close many doors for you that an "Associate of the (ISC)²" would not open back up. The thing about CISSP is that it demonstrates years and breadth of verified practical experience. This is what "opens the door". Passing the test without the experience will not even crack the door.

I'm guessing that you find high school boring and you want to work ahead on more advanced topics that better hold your interest. That would be admirable and would be something I would look for in an employee. However, skipping your senior year would cause me concern that it comes with an inability to follow through on commitments, an unwillingness to work on "menial" tasks, and with a high risk of being ghosted. Ultimately, the concerns would likely cause me to move on to the next resume.

Instead, you might consider taking courses that offer both college and high-school credit through your senior year. Our local high school offers this in conjunction with the local college and it has a number of advantages. Beyond the greater challenges, you will finish college a semester or two earlier and will end up with less college debt. Plus, it would make your resume stand out, in the same way as being an eagle scout, a shift manager at a burger joint, a class officer or graduating with honors.

... Can I still put CISSP in the test score section on Linkedin?

In direct answer to your question, the answer is not known for sure. The underlying rule is that you may not imply that you are a CISSP. Even "publicly" saying you passed the CISSP exam is risky because not everyone knows that there are subsequent steps to becoming a CISSP and automated searches are likely to improperly hit on your profile. It is known to be acceptable to mention in an interview that you passed the exam and have a career goal of gaining the necessary experience to obtain the certification itself. Although you will see some mention of the phrase "Associate of the (ISC)² in pursuit of CISSP", on this community, the phrase has not been blessed by (ISC)², so there is no guarantee that it is safe to use.

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 06:33:11 GMT

@denbesten wrote:
Not having a high school diploma will close many doors for you that an "Associate of the (ISC)²" would not open back up. The thing about CISSP is that it demonstrates years and breadth of verified practical experience. This is what "opens the door". Passing the test without the experience will not even crack the door.

I should have been more specific: I am receiving a high school diploma. I have all the required credits for graduation. In hindsight, I guess "skipping" wasn't the right word to use.

You're right. I'm jumping the gun a little too early. You guys are in a whole different league but I just want to try out the test and see how I do.

@denbesten wrote:

Instead, you might consider taking courses that offer both college and high-school credit through your senior year. Our local high school offers this in conjunction with the local college and it has a number of advantages. Beyond the greater challenges, you will finish college a semester or two earlier and will end up with less college debt. Plus, it would make your resume stand out, in the same way as being an eagle scout, a shift manager at a burger joint, a class officer or graduating with honors.

I've been doing that. My bad, I should have specified the exact details. I have 19 credits from AP courses and 8 from taking courses at my local community college (I have more from the community college but only 8 are acceptable for transfer credit to my college). I've created an excel document with all my required courses and one possible schedule which will allow me to finish in 2.5 years (5 normal semesters and 2 summer semesters). My college also offers an accelerated masters program. This means a completion time for masters of 1 year (1 normal semester and 1 summer semester).

@denbesten wrote:

In direct answer to your question, the answer is not known for sure. The underlying rule is that you may not imply that you are a CISSP. Even "publicly" saying you passed the CISSP exam is risky because not everyone knows that there are subsequent steps to becoming a CISSP and automated searches are likely to improperly hit on your profile. It is known to be acceptable to mention in an interview that you passed the exam and have a career goal of gaining the necessary experience to obtain the certification itself. Although you will see some mention of the phrase "Associate of the (ISC)² in pursuit of CISSP", on this community, the phrase has not been blessed by (ISC)², so there is no guarantee that it is safe to use.

Got it. Won't mention it on LinkedIn.

I've got some other questions as well:

Do the work experience waivers stack or can I only choose one? I can get a one year professional work experience waiver because I hold Security+. Will this prevent me from getting a waiver for completing my bachelor's?

Can an endorsement be signed by someone related to me? Like my parents? I know they have to be an (ISC)2 credential holder.

Thank you so much for the information!

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

AlecTrevelyan — Tue, 14 May 2019 09:15:30 GMT

@om wrote:
...
...
Do the work experience waivers stack or can I only choose one? I can get a one year professional work experience waiver because I hold Security+. Will this prevent me from getting a waiver for completing my bachelor's?

You can have a year of experience waived for either a suitable degree OR an approved credential (not both):

https://www.isc2.org/Certifications/CISSP/experience-requirements

Can an endorsement be signed by someone related to me? Like my parents? I know they have to be an (ISC)2 credential holder.

The only criterion is the endorser needs to be a certified credential holder in good standing, so, yes, it could be a family member. Alternatively, you can ask ISC2 to act as your endorser:

https://www.isc2.org/Endorsement

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

Bader182 — Tue, 14 May 2019 15:00:11 GMT

Within the Associate of (ISC)2 video they mention "stand out to employers" and "differentiate yourself from the pack". How are you supposed to do this after passing a certification such as CAP if you can't even think of mentioning it for fear of being banned? What EXACTLY is approved to use as marketing for future jobs that would actually help you "stand out"?

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

rslade — Tue, 14 May 2019 15:55:41 GMT

> om (Viewer) posted a new topic in Member Support on 05-13-2019 11:44 PM in the

> I'm sixteen-year-old and I'm skipping
> my senior year at high school and directly going to a Cyber Security Engineering
> bachelor's program.

Don't do that. I did that. (Well, not the Cyber Security Engineering B. Sc. part:
they didn't exist back then.)

I'd take 20 years to explain why it's not a good idea.

> I want to get everything (bachelors, masters, industry
> certifications) done as fast as possible.

Yeah, my Dad gave me similar advice. Probably the worst he ever gave me. I'd
counsel patience.

> Can I still put CISSP in the test score section
> on Linkedin? That way, I'm not saying that I have the certification but I'm not
> hiding the fact that I passed.

Yeah, that should be fine.

> I'm just asking because I'm already on studying
> domain two and don't want to be disappointed when I pass.

Have you studied "Security Engineering," by Ross Anderson?

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Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

rslade — Tue, 14 May 2019 16:12:41 GMT

> om (Viewer) posted a new reply in Member Support on 05-14-2019 02:33 AM in the

> Do the work
> experience waivers stack or can I only choose one? I can get a one year
> professional work experience waiver because I hold Security+. Will this prevent
> me from getting a waiver for completing my bachelor's?

Interesting question. I suspect you only get one year off the total, but
@Samantha_O, @amandavance, can you get this person in touch with someone
from the creds committee for a definitive answer?

> Can an endorsement be
> signed by someone related to me? Like my parents? I know they have to be an
> (ISC)2 credential holder.

You got at least one parent who is a CISSP? That could come in very handy. You
planning on doing work study or volunteer work while you do your baccalaueate?

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Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

denbesten — Tue, 14 May 2019 16:43:42 GMT

@om wrote
I have all the required credits for graduation.

Congratulations and good work! Two other things I might suggest. First, consider leaving time for an internship. They can be great for bridging the gap between "too much book knowledge" and "not enough real-world experience". Plus, it can potentially accrue towards the experience requirement.

Second, leave some time to have a life. College is also about building friendships, learning to maturely interact with others with whom you disagree, exploring subjects beyond just that which you think you want today, and to a degree kicking back and learning how to live a balanced life.

AlecTrevelyan properly addressed your other questions. Do keep in mind that there is a 6 year limit for gaining the required 4 additional years of experience (beyond the one you already have for passing Security+), so don't waste your time "trying" too early.

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 17:12:24 GMT

@rslade

Why specifically is it a bad idea? In my mind I don't want to sit around doing normal classes. I've exhausted all possible cyber security classes at my high school so the only thing left is to sit in English class all day.

No, I have not read that book. I am ordering right now though. Gotta learn everything.

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 17:11:37 GMT

@AlecTrevelyan

That sucks. I wish I could have stacked them.

How does it work for (ISC)2 to be my endorser? It sounds like trying to get a college recommendation from the college that you are applying to.

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 17:14:27 GMT

@Bader182

Their cert. Their rules. Just gotta go with the flow.

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 17:13:43 GMT

@rslade

>You got at least one parent who is a CISSP?

>That could come in very handy. You

>planning on doing work study or volunteer work while you do your baccalaueate?

Well, no. My mom is about to give CISSP and my dad doesn't want to because he was gifted certs like CISO because of his experience and says he doesn't need a certification to prove himself when he has all his experience. My parents' coworkers are all CISSPs.

I probably won't have time for anything because I'm going to be doing 17-19 credits per semester.

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 17:25:27 GMT

@denbesten wrote:
@om wrote
I have all the required credits for graduation.
Congratulations and good work! Two other things I might suggest. First, consider leaving time for an internship. They can be great for bridging the gap between "too much book knowledge" and "not enough real-world experience". Plus, it can potentially accrue towards the experience requirement.

Second, leave some time to have a life. College is also about building friendships, learning to maturely interact with others with whom you disagree, exploring subjects beyond just that which you think you want today, and to a degree kicking back and learning how to live a balanced life.

AlecTrevelyan properly addressed your other questions. Do keep in mind that there is a 6 year limit for gaining the required 4 additional years of experience (beyond the one you already have for passing Security+), so don't waste your time "trying" too early.

I don't think I'm eligible for internships. I'm on a dependent visa that doesn't allow me to work 😞 (I would be working as a Network Administrator right now if my visa allowed it). I don't know if student internships are an exception.

But I have the rest of my life to relax. If I work hard till 30 it'll make my life much easier down the road, right?

You're right that I'm trying too early. But I'm also doing a PhD program with a concentration in digital forensics (after the accelerated masters; there's some overlap in courses from my bachelors, masters, and PhD so my PhD will only take 1.5-2 years). My dad said that by the time I finish my PhD I will have the work experience for a CISSP but it won't matter because a PhD completely shadows a CISSP.

Can you confirm this analogy?:

CISSP is to Security+ as PhD is to CISSP

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

amandavanceISC2 — Tue, 14 May 2019 17:57:56 GMT

@om Congratulations on the steps you are taking to start your career!

To answer your original question, no, you may not list CISSP anywhere on your LinkedIn profile, any social media, email signatures, or anything else in writing. If you take and pass the exam and do not have the experience requirements, we do have the Associate of (ISC)2 status. I have provided the link to that page. What this does is provides the candidate with 6 years to obtain the 5 years of work experience in at least 2 of the 8 CISSP domains. Although you have 6 years, you do have to maintain the status by paying an annual maintenance fee of $50.00 and submit CPEs by the expiration date each year. As long as you maintain your status each year, you will renew for the full 6 years.

If you do not meet requirements, the status will be suspended and later terminated. To get back in good standing, you would have to retake the exam (full price). If you hold the status for the full 6 years and do not submit the endorsement application in that time frame, and the status terminates, you will also have to retake the exam at that time. The goal is to submit the endorsement application (confirms work experience) by year 6. If you don't think you'll be able to get the 5 year work requirement by the end of 6 years, I would suggest waiting on taking the exam.

Once you pass the exam and become an Associate of (ISC)2, the only thing you can list on anything is "Associate of (ISC)2". By listing the CISSP, this makes it look like you hold the CISSP certification and violates policy. By being an Associate, you will also be provided an Acclaim badge that you can list on your LinkedIn profile.

In regards to waiving experience, candidates can only waive a maximum of one (1) year either by holding a bachelors degree or higher, or an approved certificate. This means that if one year is waived, you will need to have at least 4 years in 2 of the 8 domains to meet the work experience requirements.

Best Regards,

Amanda Vance

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 18:09:26 GMT

@amandavanceISC2 wrote:
@om Congratulations on the steps you are taking to start your career!

To answer your original question, no, you may not list CISSP anywhere on your LinkedIn profile, any social media, email signatures, or anything else in writing. If you take and pass the exam and do not have the experience requirements, we do have the Associate of (ISC)2 status. I have provided the link to that page. What this does is provides the candidate with 6 years to obtain the 5 years of work experience in at least 2 of the 8 CISSP domains. Although you have 6 years, you do have to maintain the status by paying an annual maintenance fee of $50.00 and submit CPEs by the expiration date each year. As long as you maintain your status each year, you will renew for the full 6 years.

If you do not meet requirements, the status will be suspended and later terminated. To get back in good standing, you would have to retake the exam (full price). If you hold the status for the full 6 years and do not submit the endorsement application in that time frame, and the status terminates, you will also have to retake the exam at that time. The goal is to submit the endorsement application (confirms work experience) by year 6. If you don't think you'll be able to get the 5 year work requirement by the end of 6 years, I would suggest waiting on taking the exam.

Once you pass the exam and become an Associate of (ISC)2, the only thing you can list on anything is "Associate of (ISC)2". By listing the CISSP, this makes it look like you hold the CISSP certification and violates policy. By being an Associate, you will also be provided an Acclaim badge that you can list on your LinkedIn profile.

In regards to waiving experience, candidates can only waive a maximum of one (1) year either by holding a bachelors degree or higher, or an approved certificate. This means that if one year is waived, you will need to have at least 4 years in 2 of the 8 domains to meet the work experience requirements.

Best Regards,
Amanda Vance

What is a CPE? I think I'll go with the exam and renew the associate every year.

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

denbesten — Tue, 14 May 2019 18:48:05 GMT

@om wrote:
What is a CPE? I think I'll go with the exam and renew the associate every year.

Continuing Professional Education. See https://www.isc2.org/-/media/ISC2/Certifications/CPE/CPE---Handbook-Digital-V2.ashx

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

rslade — Tue, 14 May 2019 18:49:41 GMT

> om (Viewer) posted a new reply in Member Support on 05-14-2019 01:10 PM in the

> my dad doesn't want to because he
> >was gifted certs like CISO because of his experience and says he doesn't need a
> >certification to prove himself when he has all his experience.

Can't fault that logic.

> My parents'
> >coworkers are all CISSPs.

Well, again, that could be handy.

> I probably won't have time for anything because I'm
> >going to be doing 17-19 credits per semester.

Again, I counsel patience. Not saying you couldn't do it (I did 15 creds/sem at grad
school, and survived), but work/study or volunteer work helps you apply what you
are learning and get some perspective on/with it. (Along *with* the 15 creds/sem
I was volunteering with the local school district.)

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Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

rslade — Tue, 14 May 2019 19:10:14 GMT

> om (Viewer) posted a new reply in Member Support on 05-14-2019 01:03 PM

> Why specifically is it a bad idea?

Mostly socially. I mean, it won't kill you. My career has been bizarre ever since *I* took "early entrance," but it probably would have been messed up anyway--I'm weird.

But, I never knew which alumni class reunion to attend, so I didn't bother with any of them. When people talk about grad year, I can't: I just don't know what went on. (All my other social stuff outside of school hit a bump as well: all my friends were still in school doing grad year stuff, and I was actually working at university. It made for a bit of a disconnect.)

> In my mind I don't want to sit around doing
> normal classes.

So do abnormal ones. Those are the only ones worth taking anyway. (Do they have Latin? I always wish I'd taken Latin ...)

> I've exhausted all possible cyber security classes at my high
> school so the only thing left is to sit in English class all day.

Yuck. OK, if the only option is extra English, then go to uni. I *always* hated English classes. Nothing but centuries old in-jokes ... (Weird that I ended up writing books ...)

> No, I have
> not read that book. I am ordering right now though. Gotta learn everything.

That's the spirit ...

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Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

amandavanceISC2 — Tue, 14 May 2019 19:17:39 GMT

@om A CPE is "Continuing Professional Education" or "Continuing Education Credits". You will need to obtain a certain number of credits each year (activities that are domain related), to maintain the status.

Best Regards,

Amanda Vance

Re: Restrictions as an Associate of (ISC)2

om — Tue, 14 May 2019 20:09:31 GMT

>But, I never knew which alumni class reunion to attend, so I didn't bother with any of them. When people talk about grad year, I can't: I just don't know what went on. (All my other social stuff outside of school hit a bump as well: all my friends were still in school doing grad year stuff, and I was actually working at university. It made for a bit of a disconnect.)

that's basically me in high school right now. I'm getting put in the class of 2019 so when I look back in year books I won't be with any of my friends. I don't even wanna know what HS reunion is going to be like. Are they gonna even email me for class of 2020? or 2019? Both?

>So do abnormal ones. Those are the only ones worth taking anyway. (Do they have Latin? I always wish I'd taken Latin ...)

Anything outside of IT, math, and physics is a big no from me. It's excruciatingly painful.

I haven't actually ordered the book yet because I saw that it was published in 2001. Are there other books similar to that but more recent?