topic Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!! in CC Study Group

Opinion about exam, just finished !!

Topshotta — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 00:47:20 GMT

Good day everyone, hope all is well. I just completed my exam and wow it was challenging. To start off I read a lot of reviews saying to outsource to different material and I agree 100 percent. isc2 is no where near enough to help you pass this exam. Unfortunately, I failed as well. Just focusing on isc2 will set you up for failure in my opinion. The material in isc2 goes over the bare minimum or surface level and on the exam its more deep dive or advanced in my opinion. I don't like to talk bad but I feel they set us up to fail on this one. I studied my butt off with different material daily and I felt like I had to take a guess and hope I was right on atleast a third of the exam. Some questions are worded weird to throw you off but other than that, this is not a friendly/beginner course in my opinion. My advice to anyone taking the test is to STUDY HARD AND OUTSOURCE!! Take multiple courses, read multiple books , etc. Don't rely just on isc2. To be frank, I did do mike chappels CC study guide (which is amazing in my opinion) and a couple of other things but I guess it wasn't enough. The worst part about it was when I got my scores back they tell you what you were proficient in and what you aren't and it said I was below proficient in a majority of the categories which makes me feel like idk what I'm doing. But like i said I studied the isc2 material, Aced all their exams and what not so idk. Anyway thanks for reading, hope this helps someone. Going to figure out my next move. God Bless.

Re: Opinion about exam, just finished !!

FM99 — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 07:08:25 GMT

Thanks for the update this will help in preparing for the exam.

ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

fsohrabi — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 13:41:35 GMT

I think ISC2 set you up for failure on purpose for 3 reasons. To make sure most people do not pass the test. The reason is not that the person did not Study or study hard enough, but I think for these particular reasons below

1. Exam Type CAT. With the computerized random test, they make sure that you can't mark a question if you are unsure of the answer and come back to it later. Also, they add a fan to the flame by making sure that when you get a question wrong they ask you more of the same type of question wrong to lower your score

2. They give you an unreasonable time limit. The test comprises 100-150 questions because it is the CAT type of exam. However, you have approximately 1 Minute or so for each question. I say not enough time to read, and comprehend all the question and all the answers and comprehend it and be able to eliminate the wrong answers to pick the correct one. Especially when you are given a scenario-type question that is very tricky and uses tick words to try and confuse the exam taker.

3. They throw in 50 questions or so that are going to be on future exams. I say because of this, the test take is unable to evaluate how they are doing because We don't know which questions are the throwout questions. Therefore that adds to the stress of taking this exam. Also not know when the test ends so you don't know if the test will end at question 99 or question 150.

Therefore besides the exam itself being hard and filled with trick-type scenarios these 3 reasons in my opinion add to the stress of taking this exam and a higher chance of failure. If I am wrong tell me why please, and I will remove my article.

Re: Opinion about exam, just finished !!

Engr12 — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 13:42:22 GMT

Thanks for this update! I would have to cancel my next week exams.

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

dcontesti — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 14:05:01 GMT

@fsohrabi

Why would the organisation purposefully set out to fail anyone.

As to your thoughts:

1. Exam Type CAT - this method has been used for a number of years on MULTIPLE exams. Unlike paper based testing, it is intended to test the test taker's ability. This is a well known psychometric practice where a taker is asked a question and based on their success/failure, they may be asked a more difficult or less difficult question.

2. Time Limits - All exams, whether (ISC)2 or college or high school have time limits. Again this is typically based on Psychometrics.

3. ALL exams have questions which the organisation (High school, college, etc) may put on an exam to test their performance. You should keep in mind, for the CC exam, there are a potential of 75 scorable questions and potential of 25 unscorable (which means that if you get them wrong, it is not counted against you).

I believe that you are incorrect but are entitled to your opinion.

(ISC)2 has gone on record of providing 1 million Free exams for the CC and we have seen many people pass the exam and who may not claim the Certification.

Not to mention that anyone that passes the exam is required to pay Annual Maintenance Fees to the organisation so why would they want folks to fail? It's money in their pockets if one passes.

The organisation has always had a policy of not teaching the exams and have built firewalls between the exam development and any trainings they may provide.

My opinion only

Re: Opinion about exam, just finished !!

dcontesti — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 14:07:12 GMT

@Topshotta Sorry to hear.

I believe you offer great advice here.

Best on your future endeavors.

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

fsohrabi — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 14:16:51 GMT

I respect your opinion as well. You do have some good points. But I will stand on my opinion. The reason being people who take the test in the US are not given a choice between taking the CAT exam or the regular type exam which you do have more time. and it is not CAT if you have a bit of a language barrier or you are the type of person who has a hard time taking exams not because you did not study but because you are just a bad exam taker or you get nervous then the CAT type exam is not helpful. Again just my opinion.

Re: Opinion about exam, just finished !!

JKWiniger — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 15:58:04 GMT

@Topshotta I agree with you. With most exams I have taken it seems like 3rd party material is better. The offical material cannot teach towards the exam where 3rd party can. To me, it's as simple as that. I feel that so many people seem to feel if they just memorize questions and answer they will be good, but no! It comes down to understanding the concepts more than the answers...

John-

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

Topshotta — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 16:01:35 GMT

I agree with you on your first point, it did seem like I was getting similar and more in depth questions to the ones I possibly have gotten wrong. ( It didn't tell me which ones I got wrong)

2nd point, I believe I was given enough time I read the questions thoroughly and tried to answer the best of my ability but some of the questions and answers I've never even heard of. I honestly felt like the scenario questions were rarely used in the test, maybe like 5 questions. It was more or so "just answer to the best of your ability" I would say there were about 25 questions I knew straight off the bat with little to no thinking.

Nonetheless I agree with you, I did read there were gonna be pre questions that we would have to just be able to pray we get right which I think is messed up to put for beginners. Now I know what I'm up. against and will go about it a different way. Thanks for your response

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

Topshotta — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 16:12:21 GMT

@dcontesti, I didn't read anywhere it was that sort of exam. I'm just saying for an organization that claims this is for beginners I believe thats far from the truh. Sure the course they offer is beginner friendly but it hardly reflects the exam. For someone, who wouldve just went off isc2 material I would guarantee that they will fail the exam. So by me saying they are "setting us up for failure" I meant they didn't properly prepare us (me)for the exam. I did see a few comments saying isc2 was enough for them to pass and I'm proud. I also read a majority of people had to outsource to pass so... score and what not . I did read about the pre questions they throw in, I didn't know if it counted towards us or not. Thanks for your input

Re: Opinion about exam, just finished !!

Topshotta — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 16:14:29 GMT

@JKWiniger took the words right out of my mouth! isc2 only teaches surface level you need a deep dive if you want to pass. Thank you

Re: Opinion about exam, just finished !!

csjohnng — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 16:39:53 GMT

@Topshotta

Sorry to hear.

I don't need this certification but for the sack of able to look at the difficulty of the exam, I took this exam 2 months ago.

I do not have any chance to review the material offered by ISC2 or any third party's one, I just walk into the examination straight, given my knowledge. background and experience, so I can't comment how helpful is the official training material (or other material) related to the CC exam, however, I can only speak for the exam on

a) how relevance are the questions asked? do they match the domain

b) the difficulty of the question for an entry level exam

c) is sufficient time given for this exam (100 questions)?

Coverage and Level of difficulty

I can say the exam questions are mostly (95%) appropriate and able to test and measure an entry level capacity, just 2-3 questions maybe is a bit off (In my opinion) and I really need to take time to look at it and trying to understand the question and answer carefully and the rest is pretty easy and straight forward (the way they ask in compare to SSCP and CISSP)

Exam length/Time-wise

I completed the cc test with 35 mins (I schedule the exam at 08:30, I parked my car at 08:10, checkin at the reception counter at 8:20 and I return to my car before 9am), given I have spend more time in that 2-3 odd questions which I am not 100% sure the questions or the answers. And given you have 2 hours for the exam, I think it's more than sufficient. For a junior one, I think the candidate with the right skill (or understanding) should able to finish in 90-100 minutes (ie in less than 1 minute for each question)

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

fsohrabi — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 16:54:18 GMT

Hello there, I want to make it clear that I am not here to create any trouble or influence anyone's opinions, nor do I want to distract anyone from taking their test. I am also studying and preparing to take the test myself. However, I do have to express my concern about the high price of the CISSP exam, which is almost $600. I have taken other exams before, such as the MCSE and Microsoft Azure exams, and they were not as costly. If you fail those exams, it only costs $100 to $160 to retake them. But with the CISSP exam, the price is too steep, especially if you fail it more than once. Most people cannot afford to retake the exam, even with a free voucher. It would cost $600 each time, which can add up to a significant amount of money if you have to retake it multiple times. Therefore, I think the price of the CISSP exam should be reconsidered to make it more accessible to everyone.

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

JKWiniger — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 16:56:05 GMT

@Topshotta I mean back when I took the test it was pencil and paper with a 6 hour time limit. I finished in I thing 4. It was only given twice a year in certain locations. And then! You had to wait months to find out if you passed or failed! Thing are much easier now a days... I think I took the exam like 2000 or 2001... my ID is 31964 to show how long it was, I think the numbers are in the millions now.

I will try to say this within limits, but there was a question about a light pole and I was like what the hell, so yes you will see things you never expected...

John-

Re: Opinion about exam, just finished !!

fsohrabi — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 16:59:40 GMT

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

JKWiniger — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 17:00:32 GMT

@fsohrabi I can only speak for myself, but I feel arguments and challenges bring the best things about and make us think. While the exam price is more than others, believe it or not other are more! I have a friend who got the free retake, he missed both times. If he passed his work would pay for it, but not if he failed..

John-

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

fsohrabi — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 17:05:01 GMT

@JKWiniger. You are correct, your workplace will pay for the test only if you pass it. If you have to take the test 3 times and you fail the test 2 out of the 3 you are paying out of pocket.

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

csjohnng — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 17:20:38 GMT

@fsohrabi

in replying, I think it's better to stick the context ( which is CC)

1) Exam Type CAT.

CC is not a CAT, CISSP is CAT.

Also I take CISSP after it's CAT, back in 2018 which is 3 hours exam. Back in the old day, the 6 hours paper base is a torture which make me not to take and I wait for the shorten one when it's CAT.

2) Unreasonable time

I have shared my opinion time given on the CC, which is more than sufficient.

I am not a native English speaker and I took 10 ISC2 exam/test in English and I passed all in the first attempt with fairly good amount of time left (mostly), except ISSEP which I got only a couple minutes left. If you found it's insufficient, then it's back to your knowledge and how you familiar with the domains being tested.

3) CC has 100 questions, even if there is experiential questions, they are not counted in the scoring. Also security is not a "static" one.

I don't think ISC2 is intentionally set-up for candidate for failure, but rather one's insufficient knowledge, experience is setting up their own failure for the exam/test in the first place.

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

emb021 — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 13:45:51 GMT

@dcontesti wrote:

"The organisation has always had a policy of not teaching the exams and have built firewalls between the exam development and any trainings they may provide."

This is important that everyone understand this point:

THIS IS NOT A CHOICE FOR ISC2. This is *required* to obtain ANSI/ISO/IEC 17024 certification. And having ISC2 certs be 17024 certified is very important for having them be recognized by other orgs, like the US DOD.

An element of this certification is that professional certifications are based on a "body of knowledge", and that training is to this BOK and the certification is to the BOK. HENCE, there HAS to be a separation between the people who develop the exam and exam questions and the people who develop the training and sample questions.

Hence the sample questions are NOT old exam questions or the like. They are created by separate groups of people.

And so this is ALSO true of ISACA, SANS/GIAC (who actually have the training and the certifying as separate orgs), CompTIA, EC-Council, PMI, etc etc etc

Re: ISC2 set you up for Failure for 3 reasons!!!!!!

emb021 — Tue, 30 Jan 2024 19:17:09 GMT

@fsohrabi write:

" However, I do have to express my concern about the high price of the CISSP exam, which is almost $600. I have taken other exams before, such as the MCSE and Microsoft Azure exams, and they were not as costly."

Uh, I wouldn't compare those to the CISSP.

Take a look at the costs of ISACA or GIAC certs, or other professional associations like IAPP, PMI, etc. They are around $500 or more.

I don't think the Azure exams are for certifications, but for certificates. And there IS a difference between the two.