topic Re: Risk and cost/benefit ... in Career Discussions

Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:50:45 GMT

I live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. We have an abundance of natural beauty. Therefore, we also have an abundance of tourists.

I was born here. (So were my parents. And 75% of my grandparents.) Those of us who are long time residents know that the natural beauty comes with some natural dangers.

A lot of the tourists don't seem to realize that. In our social media intense and almost virtual world, people don't seem to realize that you can't just press "undo" or "reload" when you do something stupid in the real world.

And we also seem to have a society that idolizes risk-taking. You've got to live "on the edge." You've got to get closer to the edge than anyone else.

Well, sometimes when you get to close to the edge, you fall off.

We've got a big tourist industry in BC. (No, it's not just a business here, it's an industry.) We've got lots of companies that spend time and money taking people out into the wild. In a (reasonably) safe way. But, for some, that isn't enough. They've got to go beyond the bounds. And then they get into trouble.

I live near Lynn Canyon. I live between the fire station and Lynn Canyon. We hear the sirens all the time, indicating that some tourist has decided that he's (it's usually he, or her, when some idiot convinces his girlfriend to accompany him) smarter then the locals who posted all the "don't jump off dangerous areas" signs. We heard them again last night. It was late last night, so I assume that whoever killed himself last night hasn't made the news sites yet.

For the reasons stated above, we have some of the best search and rescue volunteers in the world in our neck of the woods. They are, unfortunately, extremely experienced. We have, also unfortunately, a bunch of helicopter pilots who have lots of experience in trying to put a helicopter into deep canyons, or very close to waterfalls, or rock faces. It's dangerous work. Forced upon us by tourists who want the ultimate selfie ...

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 18:01:10 GMT

Flooding wouldn't have been the first risk that came to mind, but, yes, there are risks associated with camping where you are not supposed to ...

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 17:49:18 GMT

Lynn Valley ...

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Sat, 25 Aug 2018 19:06:24 GMT

And climbing the Alps in sneakers and jeans ...

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

Caute_cautim — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 21:02:10 GMT

@rslade wrote:
And climbing the Alps in sneakers and jeans ...

Or flying 80 Helicopters over Fiordland every day?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11620527

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

CraginS — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:32:05 GMT

OK, a thoughtful consideration of cost & benefit combined with a risk assessment is a good activity in our field.

However, so far this thread has only offered examples of situations that generally begin with, "Here, hold my beer and watch this."

No such risk and cost / benefit analysis ever happens in those cases, not even subconsciously.

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

Caute_cautim — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 19:37:47 GMT

@CraginS wrote:
OK, a thoughtful consideration of cost & benefit combined with a risk assessment is a good activity in our field.

However, so far this thread has only offered examples of situations that generally begin with, "Here, hold my beer and watch this."

No such risk and cost / benefit analysis ever happens in those cases, not even subconsciously.

I agree, chose your framework, one that your organisation aligns too, and drive it from start to finish, in alignment with the business objectives and strategy. Collaborate and seek input from the C Series and Operational managers and those who own the assets and keep pushing it through. Seek guidance from the CFO or Financial team, as to what resonates with the business. The main issue here is doing it, and documenting and gaining acceptance.

Regards

Caute_cautim

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 16:41:06 GMT

OK, this one's a bit weird.

A woman visited the Grand Canyon, and posted a picture of herself sitting on a (possibly dangerous) ledge. She captioned the photo "A lot of us including yours truly is a fan of daredevilry attempts of standing at the edge of cliffs and skyscrapers, but did you know that wind gusts can be FATAL??? Is our life just worth one photo?"

Six or seven months later she visited a scenic outlook at Yosemite and fell to her death.

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

CISOScott — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 17:30:48 GMT

@CraginS wrote:
OK, a thoughtful consideration of cost & benefit combined with a risk assessment is a good activity in our field.

However, so far this thread has only offered examples of situations that generally begin with, "Here, hold my beer and watch this."

No such risk and cost / benefit analysis ever happens in those cases, not even subconsciously.

And I think that is his point. Too often people do not take into consideration the risks associated with their activities or, like myself, you become complacent after doing something for 30 years and it almost costs you your life. Sometimes you have someone around to save you, other times you do not.

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

Caute_cautim — Sun, 04 Nov 2018 18:38:02 GMT

I agree, colleague recently died in the USA, after years of climbing his tower - he thought he had checked and re-checked the safety lines on his tower. One day, he thinks I have be climbing this tower for years - I will go fix that problem. He simply forgot what he did the last time, he climbed the tower.

Suddenly reality hits, too late he is a goner another Silent Key.

Regards

Caute_cautim

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 19:04:06 GMT

OK, now we have people who are willing to do risky and stupid things (jumping off a ski lift before you get to the top) in order to do stupid, risky, and illegal things (going skiing out of bounds) ...

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

Shannon — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:15:04 GMT

Somehow, I doubt those teenagers did any kind of analysis or consulted others before making a decision --- & even if they did, this wouldn't have involved the organization operating the chairlifts or the others going skiing.

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

dreastans — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:11:05 GMT

Let me just state- there is now a reason that Tidepods come with more warnings and in a child-proof container now.

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

Caute_cautim — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 00:35:46 GMT

Is your life worth one photo? https://www.fastcompany.com/90287323/people-are-falling-off-buildings-in-search-of-the-perfect-instagram-shot?utm_source=postup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Fast%20Company%20Daily&position=1&partner=newsletter&campaign_date=01042019

Regards

Caute_cautim

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Sat, 09 Mar 2019 23:49:20 GMT

Oh, for crying out loud ...

Somebody has posted a video on Instagram showing a man sliding down the roof of a 42-storey building. (No, the roof doesn't end at the ground. It ends 42 storeys above downtown Vancouver.)

So far nobody has won any Darwin awards for rooftopping in Vancouver (they have elsewhere), but it's obviously only a matter of time ...

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 19:03:53 GMT

A southern right whale and calf came close to Manly beach in Sydney, Australia.

A whole bunch of people came out on surf and paddle boards to watch. Until the mother "attacked" by swishing her tail near them.

Please people: whales are bigger than you are. Mothers with calves can get a little upset when something gets too near the calf. (If you watch the video, I think you'll agree she was remarkable circumspect.)

Re: Risk and cost/benefit ...

rslade — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 19:20:01 GMT

As I said:

For the reasons stated above, we have some of the best search and rescue volunteers in the world in our neck of the woods.

A documentary crew has done a five-part series, "Search and Rescue: North Shore." It's great filming (and must have been an absolute bear to edit). It's real stuff, on real rescues, with some interviews of some people on the teams.

I believe you can stream the whole thing if you sign up at Knowledge Network. Here's a review by the CBC.