topic Re: Dress code in Career Discussions

Dress code

rslade — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 09:00:15 GMT

Re: Dress code

CraginS — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 14:32:03 GMT

1. That's funny.

2. Pants suits have cuffs; shoes have heels.

3. Given the history of pen testing, the thought of insisting a pen tester wear a necktie or high heels in order to "look professional" is ludicrous. Do they have to cover their tattoos with bandages, too?

4. Licensing is normally a governmental function, manage by national or local government bodies and agencies, not by training or certification organizations. I was unaware, until I researched this text, that the EC Council has the audacity to label one of their training and skills verification programs a license in stead of a certification.

Re: Dress code

CISOScott — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 14:58:50 GMT

I would say the only time dress code is important for a pen tester is in the intro meeting and exit (debriefing) meeting. In between, meh. Really, if you already have someone dressed up then it would even be OK to downgrade to business casual (nice shirt with khakis, etc.)

Since they do most of their work with their fingers should manicures be added to that slide?

Re: Dress code

Badfilemagic — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:33:50 GMT

That's worth a laugh and a half right there. "I'm going to go dumpster-diving. Luckily, my Brooks Brothers OCBD is wrinkle-free!" -- said no one ever. And this coming from someone who has a closet full of Brooks Brothers that, frankly, no one makes me wear to work.

Re: Dress code

rslade — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:37:50 GMT

> CraginS (Contributor III) posted a new reply in Career on 11-01-2018 10:30 AM in the (ISC)Â² Community :

> 1. That's funny. Â 2. Given the history of pen testing, the thought of
> insisting a pen tester wear a necktie or high heels in order to "look
> professional" is ludicrous.

I'm giving a conference presentation via Skype in a couple of hours. I may or
may not be wearing pants ....

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Re: Dress code

rslade — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:54:50 GMT

> CISOScott (Advocate I) posted a new reply in Career on 11-01-2018 10:58 AM in the (ISC)Â² Community :

> I would say the only time dress code is important for a pen tester is in the
> intro meeting and exit (debriefing) meeting. In between, meh. Really, if you
> already have someone dressed up then it would even be OK to downgrade to
> business casual (nice shirt with khakis, etc.)

One time I went to the first day of a contract and Gloria asked why I wasn't
wearing a tie. I said that in this job I was mostly managing a hard core tech
group, and if I showed up wearing a tie it would scare them ...

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Re: Dress code

rslade — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 16:14:38 GMT

> Badfilemagic (Contributor II) posted a new reply in Career on 11-01-2018 11:33 AM in the (ISC)Â² Community :

> And this coming from someone who has a closet full of
> Brooks Brothers that, frankly, no one makes me wear to work.

One of the law firms I consult for demanded that I show up in a suit when the opposition demanded that I show up in court to ... well, I really don't know why they wanted me there.

I had to go buy one ...

Re: Dress code

Shannon — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 17:59:37 GMT

Reminds me of a service provider's ad I saw sometime back. It looked like a great offer, with the truth in very fine print.

In this case, that part might be worded like this...

If unable to demonstrate proficiency that matches your credibility, you may have to discard the attire --- either on-site or off-site.
Immediate success with a pen, paper & notepad is dependent on your client experiencing total system and network unavailability during your visit.

Re: Dress code

emb021 — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 21:46:00 GMT

As a security consultant, I am expected to dress nicer then my clients. For initial meetings I am at least in a dress shirt and sports coat. For some clients, I would wear a suit and tie.

When I am working at our office or at home, well, I prefer more business casual, which for me are slacks and a polo shirt or similar shirt.

Am sure the purpose of this is to ensure that pen testers, who often times are working remotely, that they need to dress professionally when they are meeting with their clients.

Re: Dress code

Shannon — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 00:58:15 GMT

@emb021 wrote:

Am sure the purpose of this is to ensure that pen testers, who often times are working remotely, that they need to dress professionally when they are meeting with their clients.

No doubt the impression made by the way we carry & portray ourselves is important, but it seemed to have been a bit over-emphasized there, hence the banter...

Re: Dress code

dcontesti — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 05:55:20 GMT

Where did you find this Rob? I find it hilarious.

What if, as a woman, I don't own a pant suit or heels? Does that mean I can never be a pen tester?

I love stuff like this, gives me my evening giggle.

Diana

Re: Dress code

CISOScott — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 11:54:00 GMT

It looks like courseware from EC Council....

Re: Dress code

Early_Adopter — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:23:07 GMT

I used to work for a company that had a policy for employees to be two orders of dress smarter than th ecustomer - they are in jean you’re in chinos, they get the Chinos you’re in pressed Woolen Business pants with a faint pinstripe.

Naturally no one ever did this, but there were lost of amusing time wasting conversations on the inevitable custome in full formal business attire that you then need you need to find a tux or ceremonial uniform of some sort... the cleverest guy on one of the projects looked like Keith from the Progidy, funnily enough no one ever told him off about it...

Re: Dress code

rslade — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 17:37:50 GMT

> dcontesti (Newcomer III) posted a new reply in Career on 11-02-2018 01:55 AM in the (ISC)Â² Community :

> Where did you find this Rob?

Originally on Twitter. It seems to be out of some official ECSA manual or
training guide.

> I find it hilarious. What if, as a woman, I don't own a pant suit or
> heels? Does that mean I can never be a pen tester?

Hey, you're a girl. Of course you can't be a pen tester. Or any other tech worker,
either 🙂

(Did you see Jack's post on the CISSPforum about heels keeping you up off the
ground and away from bugs? 🙂

> I love stuff like
> this, gives me my evening giggle.

We aims to please 🙂

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Re: Dress code

dcontesti — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 17:48:53 GMT

LOL

Did not see Jack's post yet, however I thought Walt's post on stilettos in the office was good......I much prefer my steel toed boots when dealing with bugs 🙂

Re: Dress code

rslade — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 18:12:50 GMT

> Early_Adopter (Advocate I) posted a new reply in Career on 11-02-2018 10:23 AM in the (ISC)Â² Community :

> I used to work for a company that had a policy for employees to be two
> orders of dress smarter than th ecustomer

As part of one consulting job I was temporarily managing a customer tech support
department. The CEO was really bugged about one of the support guys (they were
all guys) wearing jeans. (I mean, it was *phone* support. I had dealt with one call
soaking wet after I cycled in through the rain.) But I asked the worker if he would,
as a favour, please wear slacks, and he did.

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Re: Dress code

rslade — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 18:29:50 GMT

> dcontesti (Newcomer III) posted a new reply in Career on 11-02-2018 01:48 PM in the (ISC)Â² Community :

> I much prefer my steel toed boots when dealing with bugs

🙂

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Re: Dress code

Flyslinger2 — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 18:47:36 GMT

LOL - I've been out in the field on installs and had my sponsor call me and say that Admiral So and So just came on base and wants to see your presentation. I'm standing there in my shorts and Tommy Bahama shirt and sandals (it's San Diego-heaven on earth). I tell my sponsor of my attire and he doesn't care!

The stuffiest place on earth to work is Washington, D.C. everyone wears suits and ties. My current customer wears ties in a research facility-it's dirty, lots of electronics and machinery and nasty stuff. They frown on my TB shirts! LOL

We had a saying back home in farm country-if a barn needs painting paint it. If you need to wear fancy clothes to hide other issues go for it.

Way too much is focused on outward appearance and not the character and talents inside.

Re: Dress code

Early_Adopter — Sat, 03 Nov 2018 10:11:04 GMT

I’m sure when the right time comes we’ll all be “sensibly dressed in ankle/wrist length woolen gowns and leather weather helms”.

Re: Dress code

CraginS — Sat, 03 Nov 2018 12:53:35 GMT

@Flyslinger2 wrote:
The stuffiest place on earth to work is Washington, D.C. everyone wears suits and ties.

Back when EDS was still an independent company owned by Ross Perot (pre-GM), Ross was famous for keeping the old IBM dress code of full suits, white shirts, and ties for all engineers, even after IBM relaxed their own rules. EDS had a major systems management and maintenance contract at the headquarters of the Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA), about a mile from the Pentagon. I was working on a project with several of the EDS staff at that time.

The three-star general Director of DISA had an all-hands meeting at the headquarters. While seated in the first row of the gathering, he had a deep discussion on DISA policy items with the several suited men (yes, all male) near him, assuming they were all senior executives of DISA due to their dress. Later in the day, one of his senior executives told him the third guy down was an EDS contract engineer.

The general directed his contracting office to notify EDS that from then on, all engineers would NOT wear suits to work. My EDS buddies were ecstatic, and from then on wore polo shirts and khakis to work, much better for crawling around server rooms, dragging cables, and slipping between racks to deal with the equipment.